• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks

Les inconnus de musette

M

maugein96

Guest
Every now and then we get a surprise,and discover that there are players out there who are content to play for the enjoyment of others, rather than to make a lot of money out of their talents. This guy would have made a mint in France if he had been a little bit older, but Ill leave you all to make your minds up. Cavagnolo digit it might be , but just listen to the playing! The hairstyles seem to resemble mine, but its a shame the playing doesnt!

<YOUTUBE id=evx36VWU8mk url=></YOUTUBE>

<YOUTUBE id=JJrhYlzV5vU url=></YOUTUBE>

EDIT:- Seems Jacques Guilhamat was actually a professional player that I just hadnt heard of. The accordion in the first clip is acoustic, and the second one has midi fitted, but I dont think hes using the midi. I saw the grille on the 5 row box and thought he was playing a Digit, but later realised it was a 4 voice acoustic with midi fitted. I should have done my homework before I posted the clips, but as usual I was looking for other stuff on You Tube at the time and accidentally discovered this accordionist.

Also, the guy in the second clip is Jean Delhom, I originally thought it was the same guy in both but had just aged pretty quick, but I was wrong again. In any case Id be willing to bet nobody would really have noticed!
 

artelagro

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
402
Reaction score
0
I have been watching their left hand - Do they not use the fundamental base keys?
Garth
 
M

maugein96

Guest
Garth,

French boxes usually have the basses arranged 3x3 with no dim7 row, so everything is moved one row nearer to the players left hand. There is an extra row of counter or fundamental basses in the set up and although all my boxes are French or Italian built to French spec, they were made for export to the UK and have the more normal 4x2 arrangement.

I have tried the 3x3 and it does take a bit of getting used to. As a lazy bass player Ive never really been interested in what you can do with that extra row. In earlier days some pro players used them to good effect, but most of the more modern types could make do with 5 row 80 or 100 bass, as they dont seem to use the setup much at all. Even in the old days quite a few pro players would often never progress past 5 rows.

The only players who still make prolific use of all 6 rows on 3x3 seem to be the Portuguese, who usually play French spec boxes, but with Portuguese tuning. Normal configuration seems to be 3 voice treble LMM, with the two flutes tuned pretty close together.

Here is a guy playing a corridinho on a Beltuna, and youll see the bass button position markers on the 4th row instead of the 5th where they are on a 4x2.

<YOUTUBE id=RaW1kgVUtcY list=PLSw5vI2SKyPOeHtZT4FvvUo_X1sFnJ9WE url=></YOUTUBE>
 

artelagro

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
402
Reaction score
0
Thanks Maugein,
I had seen references to 3x3 and 2x4 bass systems mentioned on here before but because they didn't apply to me, I ignored them. I have just now Googled 3x3 etc., found a bamboozling variety of links and think this could warrant a section of its own.
I understood continental boxes or CBAs as they appear to be known, came as 'C' or 'B' system and didn't realise that the left hand permutations were so complex.
Yes, accordionists are unique - It wid be some world if we were a' the same.
Ca canny
Garth
p.s. Your link above shows well the use of the fundamental keys, ta.
 
M

maugein96

Guest
Garth,

I'm sure somebody did put a post on explaining how the basses were normally arranged in 3x3, but I also seem to remember that there may have been more than one version! I believe only people who have and play them would be able to be more specific.

The 3x3 layout is more obvious in the Belgian system where there are two half rows of three buttons, top and bottom.

I had the chance to buy a Belgian accordion once from a workmate whose mother was Belgian, but shied away from it as I had already started to play a C system, and it was a B system treble with C in the second instead of the usual third row. If my memory serves me correctly, the Belgians describe their accordions as Do1 (Bruxelles or standard C system), Do2 (Charleroi B system with C in the second row), and Do3 (Liegeois standard B system). Of the three only the Do2 Charleroi is actually Belgian, but they all usually have Belgian basses. I do believe the Do2 will now be extinct and other members from that neck of the woods also say that the Belgian bass system is not far off being a museum piece. However, quite a few Italian and the two main French makers still offer Belgian basses as an option.

As you say it would be a boring old world if everybody was the same. Saw the post about your box. That's a pretty unusual instrument in Scotland, and I'm glad you managed to get it fixed.
 

TomBR

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Nov 1, 2013
Messages
989
Reaction score
51
Location
SE. Gloucestershire UK
My Fratelli Crosio CBA is 3+3 and although I'm a long way from making good use of it, I like the layout.
The sevenths are third, fifth and seventh so if you add the major button you have a full four note seventh, but it means the sevenths are also your diminished row.

My minor counterbasses are offset by one position so to get the minor third you go one button nearer your chin than you might expect. I don't know the full thinking behind this but it does mean you can play scales on the minor and major counterbass rows using the same fingering as the normal bass and counter bass.
 
M

maugein96

Guest
Hi TomBR,

The really old French players made prolific use of all the buttons on the 3x3 setup, and I suppose it is just a matter of working out what you can do with it. Like I say the Portuguese players seem to take to it like a duck to water

Problem I had was my initiation to music was the trumpet, where chords and bass buttons were for other people, and I had real problems getting past single note playing on any instrument I tried. I started to learn jazz chords on guitar in my late 50s and was amazed by what I was missing out on. My "musical" learning process was all but destroyed by being a slave to the 12 bar blues on guitar.

It took me many years to realise that my ears had effectively become tone deaf because of the 12 bar repetition I had played for years on guitar. I started playing accordion by ear, but eventually took to reading the scores in an effort to work out what I was doing wrong. Unfortunately I still suffer from 12 bar syndrome to a degree, but after having spoken to various other similarly affected musicians I've started to learn how to listen again. Probably too late to make much difference, but as an amateur player I can cope with that.

Unfortunately French musette accordion is also possessed of certain repetitive chord progressions and phrases, but I suppose that is the way it is with music the world over. Even jazz purists will argue over what should or shouldn't be played over a certain jazz progression, and it's either as simple or complicated as you want it to be. I think I lie somewhere in the middle (unless my wife shoves me over to my own side!)
 

losthobos

Prolific poster
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
192
Location
Essex UK
i like the first guy a lot...les forains is a great tune though i've mostly heard it played a lot simpler...even by Galliano...if anyone has access to a simple sheet id be interested to learn.
Tom you're set up 3x3 is same as mine and seems the most standard...and makes perfect sense where the flat third line is displaced by one step....
Maugien...i too suffered from 12bar syndrome....should have dived straight into jazz from the word go....and by Jazz i probably mean Great American Songbook....which probably means Bach anyways....the importance of musical arrangement and families cannot be stressed enough...and three chord tricks abandon any real hope of musical understanding...especially if further jailed into a 12 bar format...Mind i did make a lot more money playing 12bars on a guitar than i ever have on accordion...
luckily the real joy for me is i seem to make a musical discovery every couple of months that seems so much more valuable to me than hard cash...
 

Pipemajor

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
264
Reaction score
42
Location
London, Limousin, France
You can download a free copy of the sheet music fot La valse foraine if you google La valse foraine pdf. Look for "partitions de Patrick Messifet" and there it is.
If I was more computer literate I would be able to give you the link to click on, but I'm not so I can't. :?
 

losthobos

Prolific poster
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
192
Location
Essex UK
Thank you pipemajor....downloading was the easy part...deciphering what the sheet of dancing flies actually means may not prove so simple...will let you know how I get on....
 

losthobos

Prolific poster
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
192
Location
Essex UK
Probably not wrong with this one...had a brief glance and looks like one of those digital tongue twisters....will put on hold for now....or find a simpler sheet...
This version looks over complex...heres Gallianos....which admittedly has a complex left hand...but an easier to remember melody....more within my capabilities of bastardising...eventually <EMOJI seq=1f609>?</EMOJI>
 
M

maugein96

Guest
Looks like we are dealing with two different tunes with slightly different titles. The first clip is of Jean Delhom playing his own composition, which is simply called "la Foraine", which translates as "The Fairground". The word "valse" does not feature in the tune title at all.

Unfortunately French musette is full of such anomalies, further complicated by different players modifying the content of the scores in the name of individuality.

Galliano has probably done more than most to keep the accordion alive through difficult times, and I am very grateful to him for that. However, the "modern" playing styles which have evolved by people using his teaching method, and also by listening to him, are pretty far removed from the first two clips I put on this post. The guy is undoubtedly a world beater, but dare I say I'm not really a fan of his style?

Complicated left hand? It's all I can do to hit the right chords without trying fancy bass runs. I wasted years trying to master the Stradella bass fingering in the method book by Davide Anzaghi, only to discover that it wasn't really suitable for the type of music I played.

I think I've reached the stage where I'm content enough just to listen to the guys in the first two clips, and live with the fact that I don't have enough years left to be able to play like that.
 

Pipemajor

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 16, 2017
Messages
264
Reaction score
42
Location
London, Limousin, France
Apologies I got the wrong La foraine valse, I think this is the right one.
I googled jean delhom and under "partitions accordeon/jean delhom" you will find La foraine (valse).
You have to sign up (free) for a 5 day trial- no card details asked for and you can download it. :ch
 
M

maugein96

Guest
The partitions accordeon site used to be free indefinitely with some mp3 tracks included, but like everything else when there's money to be made....... I have used the site once or twice, but found the content isn't very comprehensive relative to the number of artistes listed. I suppose we should be grateful that it's there at all.

In Italy various publishers offer their "spartiti" free of charge, and there are whole volumes of free guitar and Greek bouzouki music online for the taking.

I'm off to Bouzoukiland again soon, and hopefully twice more next year. I've promised my wife there will be no more guitars, bouzoukis, or accordions, even if I can get free sheet music for them. Only the Greeks can play bouzouki well, and the French are probably the best at playing musette. Shame I cannot find excuses for my woeful efforts on the guitar or the accordion in general!
 

losthobos

Prolific poster
Site Supporter
Joined
Oct 6, 2014
Messages
1,241
Reaction score
192
Location
Essex UK
Happy holidays Maugien...and take heart...it's pointless the likes of us even murmuring and comparing ourselves to the greats of any era.....just play the bloody accordion in the style that is yours....the people listening, dancing aren't interested in a history lesson...they just feel something romantic, nostalgic or amusing...and that's enough ...
 
M

maugein96

Guest
You're right Terry,

Couldn't get the telephone book down my trousers in time! Suffice to say that 2017 has been a very bad year, for me at least, and perhaps my enthusiasm for the music is suffering.

Aching fingers and joints have turned me into more of a listener than a player of late, and only my neighbours are getting the benefit of that. Nothing beats playing, but I'm having to stick with pretty basic stuff these days, and that sort of goes against the grain with me. Just hope I don't get arthritis in my ears!
 

Similar threads

Top