Left Hand Quandry 3/2 4/3 SOS

[ChevyF16A10]

Left hand quandry here…

… took a few months of lessons in 2009. Was taught 3/2 (bass/M and m chords), and 4/2 for bass and 7ths.

Just started lessons back up and my hands went right back to that 3/2 with the change-up for bass/7ths. Teacher doesn’t mind, but she uses 3/2 for all. My twin 7yo learning 3/2. Posted video of my daughter playing and people stating they should be learning 4/3. Our instructor is amazing and has been instructing for 50 years.

Looking for anyone’s $0.02 on this. I’ve been trying to watch L Welk videos trying to see what the old guys did, but they move too fast! I’m tired of googling.

1. Me wanting to go from 3/2 for M and m but then go to 4/2 for 7ths… is that nutty? Does anyone do that?

2. What should I do? That 3/2 stretch to the 7th is uncomf for me. Should I try to stretch to the 7th? My hands are not small, just feel awkward and hand not flexible, apparently.

3. What about my kids? Our instructor is amazing in every way! We are so grateful! Could they become as great as they may dream to be using either method? Does it really matter? Was old school 3/2 for M m 7? I’m good with old school.

Thank you!

 

[pentaprism]

I don't know if there is a "standard." I use 4/3 for M, and 4/2 for m and for 7.

4 is for the root note (e.g. C) and for the 3rd note (e.g. E). 3 is for the 5th note (e.g. G).

 

[Morgan28]

I believe this is what you need to be doing,
1. Mixing 3/2 and 4/2 isn’t nutty—some players do switch for 7ths if it’s more comfortable. Do what works for you.

2. If 4/2 feels better for 7ths, stick with it. Hand flexibility varies, and forcing an awkward stretch can slow you down.

3. For your kids, 3/2 is fine—plenty of great players use it. The method matters less than good technique and practice. If they hit a wall later, they can adjust.

Old-school players used 3/2 for everything, but there’s no "right" way. If your teacher’s solid (and she sounds it), trust her. Play what feels natural and keep enjoying it!

 

[Ben-jammin]

Just my 2 cents but the tonic bass / chord patterns are pretty elementary things. And it’s generally ok to play them in either fingering. There is merit in becoming comfortable with stretching the fingers for 3/2 on 7ths but also for developing dexterity for your 4th finger with 4/2 and generally becoming familiar with using more fingers regularly on you left hand. Where it will matter more is when someone advances past tonic bass and fifth bass alternating with the chord and starts incorporating bass runs, alternating patterns with notes other than tonic and the fifth or any other specific left hand combination to make required chords. Then the fingering becomes more critical because you have to identify how the subsequent notes will have to be supported and arranging your fingers to have one available for every subsequent note that will be needed. Just like when you identify fingering for the right hand for particular songs, some parts of songs may require you to do the same for at least portions of the left hand. Ultimately becoming familiar with both 3/2 and 4/2 Fingering may be handy later.

 

[Dingo40]

took a few months of lessons in 2009. Was taught 3/2 (bass/M and m chords), and 4/2 for bass and 7ths.

This is fine ( unless you prefer something else.)

What about my kids? Our instructor is amazing in every way! We are so grateful! Could they become as great as they may dream to be using either method?

This is fine for them, as this what their teacher does.
The thing is, eventually you'll be using all 4 fingers in the most convenient manner.
The fact is, no matter what the technique, some expert somewhere is using it quite successfully and happily!
In general terms, there's a tendency for English speakers to favour 3/2 and the rest of the world to favour 4/3 but, as you proceed, more or less anything goes!

 

[JerryPH]

I've been brought up using the 3-2 method, but I will say this which should resolve all questions. I always say that for the RIGHT hand, use the fingering that permits you to be ready for the next note required.

I'll now say that pretty much the same rule follows here. There are times I use 3-2, 4-3 or even 5-2. Do what the music requires you to do. For the times I have an option, I use mostly 3-2 for Stradella basics, even counterbass to diminished chords are possible, if I so need to.

 

[JeffJetton]

Yeah, I'm a 4/3 guy myself, and it's what I usually teach (unless a student is coming to me with previous 3/2 learning from another instructor). But there are plenty of great players who use different fingerings.

FWIW, your "switch up" is not unusual. Palmer-Hughes lists *both* 3/2 and 4/2 as options for 7th chords, for example.

 

[JeffJetton]

In general terms, there's a tendency for English speakers to favour 3/2 and the rest of the world to favour 4/3

Inspired by tennis grips, I've started personally referring to 4/3 as "continental" fingering and 3/2 as "western".

Although I have noticed that material here in the States that has been published in the last couple of decades is very likely to prescribe 4/3 as well.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

I have no real preference. I hardly play any more. It seems that during my time as a kid, and much later as an adult, I encountered teachers who preferred 3-2, then 4-3, then ‘who cares,’ and finally 3-2 over again, but all of that was just to get started. In progressing to alternating bass and beyond, you get to 4-3-3-3 or 4-2-3-2 from a 4-3 beginning or 3-2-3-2 from a 3-2 beginning in a major key. When sevenths enter the picture, yes, there is some stretch involved, and the idea is to just keep doing it until it’s comfortable.

Eventually, maybe three years or so down the road, you will encounter alternating bass in a minor key or minor or chromatic scales in the bass, and 5 (ouch!) will begin to challenge you. It will be a stretch to a naturally weak finger, but you’ve already conquered the 2-4 and possibly 3-4 stretch, so why not do the same with 2-5 or 3-5?

What I’ve been saying can be summed up as:

1. Let your teacher determine the sequence, but practice.

2. When stretch is introduced, go slowly, but practice.

Practice is the key.

 

[JerryPH]

Practice is the key.

I think that no matter what the question is 95% of the time this would be the answer.

 

[ChevyF16A10]

All of these replies have been extremely helpful! Thank you!

 

[ChevyF16A10]

I believe this is what you need to be doing,
1. Mixing 3/2 and 4/2 isn’t nutty—some players do switch for 7ths if it’s more comfortable. Do what works for you.

2. If 4/2 feels better for 7ths, stick with it. Hand flexibility varies, and forcing an awkward stretch can slow you down.

3. For your kids, 3/2 is fine—plenty of great players use it. The method matters less than good technique and practice. If they hit a wall later, they can adjust.

Old-school players used 3/2 for everything, but there’s no "right" way. If your teacher’s solid (and she sounds it), trust her. Play what feels natural and keep enjoying it!

Thank you, yes... She is amazing!

 

[ChevyF16A10]

I don't know if there is a "standard." I use 4/3 for M, and 4/2 for m and for 7.

4 is for the root note (e.g. C) and for the 3rd note (e.g. E). 3 is for the 5th note (e.g. G).

I was trying 4/3 for M and it just feels too crammed for me, which doesn't make sense because 3/2 are right next to each other as well. hmm

 

[ChevyF16A10]

Just my 2 cents but the tonic bass / chord patterns are pretty elementary things. And it’s generally ok to play them in either fingering. There is merit in becoming comfortable with stretching the fingers for 3/2 on 7ths but also for developing dexterity for your 4th finger with 4/2 and generally becoming familiar with using more fingers regularly on you left hand. Where it will matter more is when someone advances past tonic bass and fifth bass alternating with the chord and starts incorporating bass runs, alternating patterns with notes other than tonic and the fifth or any other specific left hand combination to make required chords. Then the fingering becomes more critical because you have to identify how the subsequent notes will have to be supported and arranging your fingers to have one available for every subsequent note that will be needed. Just like when you identify fingering for the right hand for particular songs, some parts of songs may require you to do the same for at least portions of the left hand. Ultimately becoming familiar with both 3/2 and 4/2 Fingering may be handy later.

This helps! I figure, over time, my kids will have enough time in to switch the L hand fingering up, if they need to. Thank you!!

 

[ChevyF16A10]

This is fine ( unless you prefer something else.)

This is fine for them, as this what their teacher does.
The thing is, eventually you'll be using all 4 fingers in the most convenient manner.
The fact is, no matter what the technique, some expert somewhere is using it quite successfully and happily!
In general terms, there's a tendency for English speakers to favour 3/2 and the rest of the world to favour 4/3 but, as you proceed, more or less anything goes!

Great! I do think maybe it takes a .25 of a second longer for me to switch from 3/2 to 4/2 for 7ths, but the 3/2 stretch is more awkward at the moment. Thank you!

 

[ChevyF16A10]

I've been brought up using the 3-2 method, but I will say this which should resolve all questions. I always say that for the RIGHT hand, use the fingering that permits you to be ready for the next note required.

I'll now say that pretty much the same rule follows here. There are times I use 3-2, 4-3 or even 5-2. Do what the music requires you to do. For the times I have an option, I use mostly 3-2 for Stradella basics, even counterbass to diminished chords are possible, if I so need to.

Wonderful! All of this help has allowed me to stop googling!

 

[ChevyF16A10]

Yeah, I'm a 4/3 guy myself, and it's what I usually teach (unless a student is coming to me with previous 3/2 learning from another instructor). But there are plenty of great players who use different fingerings.

FWIW, your "switch up" is not unusual. Palmer-Hughes lists *both* 3/2 and 4/2 as options for 7th chords, for example.

Thank you! I had a huge question about my, seemingly odd, switch up.

 

[ChevyF16A10]

I have no real preference. I hardly play any more. It seems that during my time as a kid, and much later as an adult, I encountered teachers who preferred 3-2, then 4-3, then ‘who cares,’ and finally 3-2 over again, but all of that was just to get started. In progressing to alternating bass and beyond, you get to 4-3-3-3 or 4-2-3-2 from a 4-3 beginning or 3-2-3-2 from a 3-2 beginning in a major key. When sevenths enter the picture, yes, there is some stretch involved, and the idea is to just keep doing it until it’s comfortable.

Eventually, maybe three years or so down the road, you will encounter alternating bass in a minor key or minor or chromatic scales in the bass, and 5 (ouch!) will begin to challenge you. It will be a stretch to a naturally weak finger, but you’ve already conquered the 2-4 and possibly 3-4 stretch, so why not do the same with 2-5 or 3-5?

What I’ve been saying can be summed up as:

1. Let your teacher determine the sequence, but practice.

2. When stretch is introduced, go slowly, but practice.

Practice is the key.

Wonderful words and advice, thank you!!

 

[Zevy]

I’m a 3/2 (formerly 4/3) guy. I personally think it’s works better for me. However, it’s worth using 4/3 as well as other combinations when they are convenient.
Good luck .

 

[Ffingers]

Hands come in a wide variety of shapes and sizes which is why most gloves bought off-the-peg rarely fit anyone!
Likewise fingerings for any kind of keybard instruments.
For simple oopapah style music 3-2 and 4-3 work for such genres, anything more complex requires fingering to suit the individual piece, I reckon.
I find it difficult to work on intricate mechanisms wearing riggers' gloves