Learning with a Digital Accordion

[Nico.nico]

Hello everyone

I’ve recently got myself a Roland FR-1Xb as my first accordion.

No much availability for acoustic CBAs where I live, weight and been able to use it with headphones were probably the main reasons for me to choose a V Accordion over an acoustic one.

I will like to know if others have chosen a V accordions as their first accordion too and how it has been along the road.
Was there any steep learning curve when (if) playing an acoustic one later on?

 

[cestjeffici]

I recently (this week) got a FR1xb. I also have a Scandalli Air III CBA. It's more about the difference in the size of the buttons than in whether it's acoustic or electronic for me. I'm finding the FR1 a bit cramping to play due to the smaller buttons and spacing.
My first accordion was an FR4 pa, my second a Hohner Bravo III, my third a FR8 pa, my fourth a Scandalli Air III cba, and my fifth the FR1 b. It takes about 5 to 10 minutes to get oriented on each of these when I pick them up. I try to learn different songs on each because I had found my fingers reaching for buttons on the pianos and for keys on the buttons if I was playing the same song.
I will be in Paris from October through January and have rented a Hohner Bravo III to use there. I plan on bringing my accordina to keep up my button learning.

 

[Nico.nico]

Thanks @cestjeffici . Glad to know that it isn't a huge transition. I know the bellows behave somewhat different due to the inherent way digital vs acoustic produce the sound.
Looking up in Google I found a few posts where people complained bitterly about how much different they can be.
They were stiffer the first days actually, and now they feel less so. I've been able to follow the first lessons of the method I'm following and I'm making steady progress already, which is all I can ask at this point.

Some people in the forum suggested getting an accordina also, and.... well, I play the chromatic harmonica, I love how intuitive the layout of the CBA is and Joseph Carrel had them at a discount, so I couldn't resist and took the advice given . It should be arriving probably around September.

I love how the Roland is exposing me to different configurations of accordions. I've been dabbling with the free bass mode too. Really insteresting! Also turning the bellows off and using the organ sounds to learn the chord progressions of some jazz standards I'm playing in the harmonica is really something I was missing when learning a new tune.

 

[cestjeffici]

Thanks @cestjeffici . Glad to know that it isn't a huge transition. I know the bellows behave somewhat different due to the inherent way digital vs acoustic produce the sound.
Looking up in Google I found a few posts where people complained bitterly about how much different they can be.
They were stiffer the first days actually, and now they feel less so. I've been able to follow the first lessons of the method I'm following and I'm making steady progress already, which is all I can ask at this point.

Some people in the forum suggested getting an accordina also, and.... well, I play the chromatic harmonica, I love how intuitive the layout of the CBA is and Joseph Carrel had them at a discount, so I couldn't resist and took the advice given . It should be arriving probably around September.

I love how the Roland is exposing me to different configurations of accordions. I've been dabbling with the free bass mode too. Really insteresting! Also turning the bellows off and using the organ sounds to learn the chord progressions of some jazz standards I'm playing in the harmonica is really something I was missing when learning a new tune.

Just checking .... do you know there is a ring under the air release button that will adjust the bellows air flow? I can adjust mine from almost immobile to if I let go the bellows sag open.
Also, when I'm in learning mode I sometimes set the bellows curved to fixed so that I can concentrate on fingering or experimenting with the accordion laying on a table.

 

[dak]

I would not say that there is a "steep learning curve" switching from the FR-1xb to an acoustic accordion in general: they have quite different mechanics and feel and response but so have different acoustic instruments. The problem is more that there is a very shallow very long learning curve dealing with the fine points of bellows control, button/key articulation, pitch and registration dependent air use and response.

Like learning speech melody and accents and lilt of a foreign language or region by referring to phonetic transcripts, you may get everything that is nominally required but still sound like a foreigner.

"Getting" the fine points of what you can and cannot do and how you manage to do the things you cannot do is what may distinguish some acoustic accordion players from the rest. The longer you postpone encountering those fine points, the more you may have finetuned your perception to focus on those points you have a handle on with a digital accordion.

For similar reasons, it is beneficial to step to playing instruments "beyond your pay grade" rather sooner than later (if possible) because while you have not yet stabilized and internalized everything to repeatability, you can still be surprised by the variation in sound unintentional variations in playing make, and then work on making control over them part of your skill set.

Of course there is always the question of whether that is what you actually are after. Either way, if you have a particular target you want to be playing in sight, you should not delay to the last moment switching to the actual instrument that you want to be pursuing those targets with.

 

[dan]

When I got my 1xb the amount of pressure needed to play soft vs loud felt wrong so I had to experiment with different combinations of volume knob, menu settings, and bellows tension knob. If CBAs are scarce in your area can you try out an acoustic piano accordion so you have some point of reference for how real bellows should feel?

By default some orchestral sounds are “velocity sensitive” so striking the keys harder makes it louder, which doesn’t happen on an acoustic accordion. I found that disorienting when switching between acoustic and electric instruments so I changed a menu setting so that dynamics are always controlled by bellows.

 

[Nico.nico]

I would not say that there is a "steep learning curve" switching from the FR-1xb to an acoustic accordion in general: they have quite different mechanics and feel and response but so have different acoustic instruments. The problem is more that there is a very shallow very long learning curve dealing with the fine points of bellows control, button/key articulation, pitch and registration dependent air use and response.

Like learning speech melody and accents and lilt of a foreign language or region by referring to phonetic transcripts, you may get everything that is nominally required but still sound like a foreigner.

"Getting" the fine points of what you can and cannot do and how you manage to do the things you cannot do is what may distinguish some acoustic accordion players from the rest. The longer you postpone encountering those fine points, the more you may have finetuned your perception to focus on those points you have a handle on with a digital accordion.

For similar reasons, it is beneficial to step to playing instruments "beyond your pay grade" rather sooner than later (if possible) because while you have not yet stabilized and internalized everything to repeatability, you can still be surprised by the variation in sound unintentional variations in playing make, and then work on making control over them part of your skill set.

Of course there is always the question of whether that is what you actually are after. Either way, if you have a particular target you want to be playing in sight, you should not delay to the last moment switching to the actual instrument that you want to be pursuing those targets with.

Thanks for such a wholesome response. I can totally relate to what you mention.
I more or less have already an idea about what are the features and possibilities that attract me the most of the accordion, some are probably easier to explore with a digital, and other rely on the physicality of the acoustic.
I’ll surely aim for an acoustic eventually.

PD: @cestjeffici Yes, I'm aware of the ring regulator. Currently it stays closed, with the less amount of air leaking. BLC setting I've set to 4 for now.

 

[JerryPH]

Just checking .... do you know there is a ring under the air release button that will adjust the bellows air flow? I can adjust mine from almost immobile to if I let go the bellows sag open.

I was aware... several v-accordions used this method.

Also, when I'm in learning mode I sometimes set the bellows curved to fixed so that I can concentrate on fingering or experimenting with the accordion laying on a table.

Being in learning mode is almost a requirement for the Roland V-accordions... lol. I found a lot of pleasure learning about and discovering all the little new nooks and crannies of the digital accordion, it is fun.

Hah! I thought I was the only one that placed accordions near-by and toyed with them. I've recently placed my Gola on a chair near me and during moments of quietness at work I lightly finger passages of exercises, scales or music, just to have the fingers move a little.

My arthritis is starting to hit harder the last couple weeks, and I am finding that especially in the mornings, they are closer to feeling more like a wooden branches than fingers. I may soon need to reach out to the medical community for relief.

 

[Dingo40]

My arthritis is starting to hit harder the last couple weeks,

As a co-afflicted , my sympathies.
Within reason, continuing daily playing seems to help.
We're all "victims" (or beneficiaries) of our own ancestral genes.
Personally, I try to keep medications to a minimum.

 

[dunlustin]

Years ago, one of my teen-aged sons came home from school and said,
"Dad, John's Mum says she really enjoys hearing you play the saxophone."
As John and family lived about two hundred yards and a right-angled bend away from us, that pretty much put an end to my sax' practice at home.
So also with the accordion whose the intrusive effect on others controlled when and what to practice.
I bought the 1XB and my first CBA around the same time. The option to play whenever/wherever I wished was transformative and I am sure entirely positive for the acoustic as well.
The only drawback? Given that I used Rolands almost entirely as (V) accordions, ten years on I haven't scratched the surface of all their other options.
Being able to play, guilt-free, that difficult bit over and over and over....sheer luxury!
( One thing I can't tell: As I was coming from other bellows-driven instruments, maybe I was a bit more used to differences?)

 

[saundersbp]

Personally, I try to keep medications to a minimum.

Yes. I friend of mine has arthritis in his hands as has been drinking cherry juice and eating (bitter) cherries every day. He says this has been very efficacious. Perhaps worth a try. I am not a doctor (or wealthy dentist!).

 

[dak]

Being able to play, guilt-free, that difficult bit over and over and over....sheer luxury!

Well, us acoustic zealots are sure working on that "guilt-free" thing. You know what happened to the historic Roland when he postponed making a racket for too long?

 

[Dingo40]

You know what happened to the historic Roland

As the saying has it:
"A Roland who hesitates is lost!"

 

[Nico.nico]

Well, after a small hiatus I'm back practicing regularly with the accordion. My wife is learning too, so is becoming a family trending topic of sorts
.
She's learning with a teacher via online lessons using the Berben method and adding some popular songs to the repertoire so it doesn't become just exercises from a book all that she plays.

I'm learning following mostly Manu Maugain's "Initiation à l'accordéon en 3D". I find it to be a great resource for self learners. Is focused on CBA C-System, it has audio tracks and videos for each exercise, which make the exercise really clear from the get go.
Someone mentioned here another Manu Maugain book, "Exercices techniques - Gammes et Arpèges". I bought it and totally forgot about it, since most books ordered from Europe take a month or two to arrive here. Well, last week I got the book and came as a great surprise (I got it on Amazon France on May 2nd, so it did took a while). I've been doing the first exercises and it's basically Hannon for the CBA C-System, which suits me great now, as I was trying to practice some jazz standards I'm comfortable with playing in the chromatic harmonica, and slowly bringing those to the accordion, but the fingering was becoming a puzzle. Everything is practiced in the C-F-G, so it covers all scales and saves space to provide with a variety of exercises. For a 79 page book, I can say it will keep me busy for quite some time.

Now, as is my wife doing, I'm too practicing a song besides the methods drills. Is from a Klezmer book I got some time ago. I find Klezmer sounds great on the accordion.

This is the song. This gentleman is playing exactly what's noted in the accordion version of the book probably. But I'm been a bit more stubborn and decided to play it as is played in the backing track that comes with the book, where I'm hearing the accordion doing the chords with the right hand (maybe?). Here this lady plays the clarinet version and you can hear the backtrack. I would like to play the melody with the harmonica actually which sounds really soulful (actually I started practicing the harmonica part too).

Anyways, not too much to add. I'm enjoying the accordion a lot!

 

[Kheller]

Hey I'm also learning on a FR1XB. Just started a few weeks ago, glad there are some others just starting as well. I'm going to check out some of the resources you posted!

I've just been working through the Palmer Hughes book with fingerings my teacher wants me to use.

I'll definitely be getting an acoustic at some point but yeah the pros of practicing quietly can't be beat.

 

[Ffingers]

Been playing the 1Xb for 6 months. Outgrown it but can't find a 4xb anywhere. I have blocked Paul Debra (Debbie Downer). I suggest you do the same. Low music IQ that is jealous of those who don't take 10 years to learn the instrument.

I'm playing L'Indifferance at 100pm and Clarinet Polka at 190. Deb said it would take 10 years.
It's all about practice time and focus.

It's all about individual ability and experience together with a bit of repetetive hard work, just as everything is.
Paul merely mentioned his own experience.
Blocking some one simply because you disagree with some aspects of their postings seems to me to be extremely juvenile.

 

[dak]

It's all about individual ability and experience together with a bit of repetetive hard work, just as everything is.
Paul merely mentioned his own experience.
Blocking some one simply because you disagree with some aspects of their postings seems to me to be extremely juvenile.

"Blocking" only affects what postings you get to see. If you find that the way to react to someone is making the world a worse place for yourself and others (probably including the person you block), it is kind of a matter of posting hygiene to stop looking at their posts. Of course you may be missing out on useful content, and the total absence of a reaction of yours to postings that are intended to be helpful is also not making the best impression. So it is a tradeoff involving self-judgment.

I do have a handful of blocks applied. I don't consider the blocking as such juvenile; instead it is an admission that I cannot help reacting in juvenile manners in some cases, and a way of coping with that for the sake of me and others.

 

[Nico.nico]

Hey I'm also learning on a FR1XB. Just started a few weeks ago, glad there are some others just starting as well. I'm going to check out some of the resources you posted!

I've just been working through the Palmer Hughes book with fingerings my teacher wants me to use.

I'll definitely be getting an acoustic at some point but yeah the pros of practicing quietly can't be beat.

Great to meet others learning with the digital V accordion.

My wife’s teacher mentioned her that if she had the ability to turn off the bellows then learning the exercises could be done like this:
Left hand part, right hand, then both. And at last same but including the bellows.

I thought it was a nice idea to avoid been overloaded with stuff to coordinate at first. But I might have kept the bellows off for too long, maybe a couple of weeks. Yesterday I practiced with the bellows on , and it did felt like a completely new instrument. My arms were sore after an hour too .

I’ll stick with practicing with the bellows more often than not.

 

[Ventura]

ahh.. sore arms from squeezing a Roland

here is the age old advise from our friend from England who established
the original Roland users group decades ago.. oft repeated..

when practicing with the Roland, turn the volume up more than you think you should
and you will naturally not need to squeeze it to death to coax the notes out of it

 

[Kheller]

Hah yeah I practiced with them off for a few weeks but going forward I’ve got them on. Helps to have bellows curve set to 4 (xtra lite) and the bellows to the tightest imo, not sure how you have it set.