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Key/Button Travel

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Waldo

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I recently purchased a 1960-70's vintage Paolo Soprani CBA [C]. Excellent condition with no visible wear, all notes & mechanics work like new.
When I started to play on it [Rank Beginner], I discovered the trebel buttons, when fully depressed, would travel well below the surface of the button board. I read somewhere that a poster preferred a certian box over another because "the buttons traveled less and allowed faster, smoother play...". I removed the bottom access cover for the buttons and discovered two layers of "bubble envelope", complete with the addrerss on a shipping label of the seller. Obviously a really hokey repair attempt.
I thought about it and fetched an old computer mouse pad I had, cut it to fit under the base of the buttons, cloth side up, and stuck it in place. The travel of the buttons was cut in half and the stiff foam body of the pad absorbs the impact noise and cushions the key stroke. The improvement was dramatic, as might be expected. While the pad REALLY helped, it's thickness [which is the determing factor in how far the buttons travel] was just a little bit shy of what I wanted, which brings me to my question:
What is the ideal [realizing this is a subjective issue] travel for the buttons on a CBA?
At present, my buttons travel approximately 1/20th inch [1mm] below the board surface. I find that the edge of my thumb gets irritated by contact with the sharp edges of the button holes. To remedy the situation, I will be finding [Ever try looking for mouse pads lately? They've disappeared from the face of the earth, even in yard sales] either a slightly thicker pad or a real thin one and build the thickness up to the preferred height [read: key travel].
I have fooled around with the "button travel vs volume produced" and discovered that the pallet is sufficiently open when the button is depressed halfway between the closed [static] position and button top flush with the board. That suggests that the buttons could be "adjusted" to a position where the button would stand 50% proud from the board. I suspect that somewhere in between would provide the best results.
The buttons on my box are of the "Mother-of-Pearl" plastic type. They are nicely rounded on the edges and slightly domed in the middle. I'm thinking the ideal "setting" would be to limit the travel of the buttons where the top edge of the board would align with the beginning of the edge radius on the button. The buttons would then stand proud of the board by approximately .100" [2.5mm]. This would facilate glissando slides by bringing the button tops close to the board surface, but insure they remain a little proud to receive finger pressure equally. Limiting the travel would also reduce finger travel resulting in faster "press" recovery and faster playing. Speed isn't my issue at the moment, but, I like to adjust my "stuff" to my liking and grow into it.
Any experience/opinions on button travel??
 
The Hohner company has done research on ergonomy of CBA button travel , or as they call it short key drop.

Here you can see a Hohner Nova 96 lying on its side, to give you a view of the button travel (you can click to enlarge the photos):

http://www.accordeontheek.nl/nl/product/2683/hohner-nova-iii.html

http://us.playhohner.com/instruments/accordions/chromatic/nova/nova-iii-96/

The Hohner Nova series is China made, with Hohner quality control, and the CBA button board is very ergonomical.
I once played the small Hohner Nova 48 in a shop in France, and was surprised, the buttonboard action and button drop/travel was excellent.
(I have no info on exactly how many millimeter this drop is, but maybe this information is online on the internet)

The stepped CBA keyboard layout with T-style mushroom buttons has my preference over the flat CBA keyboard.
(in Switzerland you can still buy flat CBA accordions, with the buttons going down inside the buttonboard; the clicking can get noisy, and flat keyboards dont play that fast. The best diatonic accordions also have T-style mushroom buttons).

T-style mushroom buttons with felt are the best on CBA stepped keyboards.
Stepped keyboards are great for the thumb passing under technique in CBA playing.
 
WaldoW said:
I recently purchased a 1960-70s vintage Paolo Soprani CBA [C]. Excellent condition with no visible wear, all notes & mechanics work like new.
When I started to play on it [Rank Beginner], I discovered the trebel buttons, when fully depressed, would travel well below the surface of the button board. ...

On a real C system accordion this is not possible because the buttons are larger than the holes in the button board and thus cannot travel below the surface of that board. But there is the flat C system used mostly in Switzerland with which this is possible. The buttons are then all on the same plane rather than stepped. My Hohner Morino Artiste XS is like that. It has advantages over the stepped C system for a glissando for instance. But it has the disadvantage that the buttons can go below the surface of the button board when the felt that is supposed to prevent that is worn. The thickness of that felt needs to be such that the buttons do go down to about the surface of the button board (preferably staying 1/2mm above). The travel of the buttons should then be about 3mm. The amount of travel is not all that important for the playing comfort. But especially on an instrument with cassotto the travel is important for the tuning. When there is little travel it means that the valves also open only a little bit and that causes the frequency to drop. My Hohner for instance has A=440Hz but when you take the reed block out and place it on a tuning table the A is at least 441Hz. The valves not opening very far cause that difference. (Every cassotto instrument I know has this effect but the Hohner has more of it because of the limited key travel.)
 
The opening of the valves is a matter of concern in accordions, but a short key/button drop does not necessarily means a problem for the sufficient opening of the valve (and thus the sound and pitch quality).

The key/button drop distance is only one of the factors.
Accordion makers using short key drops can use different spring and lever mechanisms.

http://www.accordionrevival.com/ACCORDION_REPAIR_2.php#Setting_up_a_keyboard_for_shallow_action
Some accordion designers eliminate this problem by using compound levers on some or all of these keys. They attach the valve to a long lever hinged at the forward side of the foundation plate. This lever is lifted near its center by the stubby key rod, thus doubling the lift on the valve.


Glissandi on a flat CBA keyboard easier than on a stepped CBA keyboard? Im not really sure if that works in classical pieces.
On conservatory nobody plays flat CBA keyboards, they all play stepped keyboard CBAs.
 
Stephen said:
...
Glissandi on a flat CBA keyboard easier than on a stepped CBA keyboard? Im not really sure if that works in classical pieces.
On conservatory nobody plays flat CBA keyboards, they all play stepped keyboard CBAs.
On a stepped keyboard glissando is easier when it is straight top to bottom because the steps keep you on the right track. But when you want to do (half) circular glissando to make it less chromatic the stepped construction makes it harder.
The Hohner Morino Artiste X (N or S) was made as a conservatory instrument, with MIII (9 row) bass system instead of convertor. It was produced with stepped or flat keyboard as desired. I bought one of the very last ones made and it happened to be flat C-griff. I play flat and stepped C-griff alike. The Hohner is a fine instrument that could be used at the conservatory (although nowadays everyone uses convertor instruments). The only thing I needed to change to make it really usable for me was to change the register sliders behind the keyboard into chin switches. And the only reason why I bought any other CBA was because I cannot handle the 18kg all the time.
 
Thanks for all the info. My box has the compound key mechanism mentioned above. I'm going to add a little more height to the stop to achieve a 1/2mm button height. I'll final on how it works out.
 
Forgot to ask Stephen if he has a link to the aforementioned Hohner ergonomic study.
Thanx
 
Hi Waldo,

Here is a link to the ergonomic buttonboard on the Hohner Nova
http://de.playhohner.com/instrumente/akkordeon/chromatische-akkordeons/nova/nova-iii-96/
entwickelten unsere Ingenieure eine neue Knopf-Tastatur, die den internationalen Standards der Ergonomie entspricht. Für den Spieler bedeutet das eine noch schnellere Ansprache der Töne bei gleichzeitig sehr ausgeglichenem und angenehmem Spielgefühl.

The actual details of this study by the Hohner engineers will probably be, as with every company, not communicated to the public on the net.
However, it is possible you can see the result online in some Hohner accordion patent about valves and levers.
Or other accordion makers valve, lever and spring patents

You could consult the online international patent databases.
 
Thanks Stephen, I'll reuserch it, thou my German is pretty rusty.
W
 
Post final:
I ended up messing about with different thickness "mouse" pads and discovered the button travel requirement [in order for the pallet to open sufficiently] differed between buttons when approaching my ideal travel distance. I found the buttons requiring a thinner bumper pad [those buttons that started to "choke off" due to lack of travel] and selected an appropriate thickness to accommodate these buttons. Some of the remaining buttons travel a little further down into the keyboard than I would like, but, life is full of compromises. The end result is most of my buttons stand approximately 1 mm proud, when depressed, a few [10+-] are about 1.5 mm proud and I have a much more comfortable keyboard to play. I'm very happy with the result and recommend attention be paid to this issue whenever necessary.
Waldo
 
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