I'm not worried at all.....
- Thread starter Tom
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maugein96
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Tom pid=66136 dateline=1563554065 said:
Tom,
There are probably thousands of folk styles worldwide which rely heavily on the accordion, and there will always be kids like these in the clip who are brought up with the music as part of their culture. Now I dont know how popular the accordion is in Mexico compared with a few generations back, but none of these youngsters could care less, as they are clearly enjoying themselves, and will no doubt be encouraged to do so by their elders.
Do such clips actually prove that the accordion is making a comeback? Its difficult to tell whether the instrument finally reached the bottom of the pit and is slowly dragging itself out again?
Ask this young man.
Just hope he doesnt jack it in when somebody at his school tells him he should be using is musical talent to play keyboards or guitar.
Good old French musette will be around for ever, as evidenced by this 2019 recording:-
Oh wait a minute, the track is being multi tracked on an electronic keyboard. Clever dudes these people who promote the accordion!
Right on John! It doesn't say where the "organetto wonder" is, but from the intros, I'm guessing the US.
So, if we don't have to be US centric, and we can call the organetto/concertina/button box an accordion (and why not?), with Tex Mex, Cajun/Zydeco, French players added to us old fart traditionalists, can we say that there are more accordion players in North America than in the PA heyday, and that the death of the cordeen was a misguided myth?
So, if we don't have to be US centric, and we can call the organetto/concertina/button box an accordion (and why not?), with Tex Mex, Cajun/Zydeco, French players added to us old fart traditionalists, can we say that there are more accordion players in North America than in the PA heyday, and that the death of the cordeen was a misguided myth?
Well, first, let's define what*is* the "Heyday of the accordion"... this was a time where there was a HUGE influx of accordions out of places like Castelfidardo… in to the USA during very specific years. That means that this phenomenon is an entirely American one, and has very little to do with how the accordion was perceived pretty much everywhere else.
For the rest of the world, there was likely something similar, but much more restrained or understated. The accordion either lost less of it's shine just a little (talking of Mexico, France, Brazil, etc...), or possibly even gained popularity by tens of thousands of new players (talking of China here). Speaking generally, Europe has dropped a lot in some places (Germany... try to find a big music store in/around Frankfurt with any accordions is challenging, but look for guitar stores, there are 1 every few blocks, this per what my sister and mother personally saw earlier this year), and I would hazard that there are pockets in the UK where it has both grown (UK generally) and areas where it has dropped (Scotland).
So in sheer numbers, yes, the accordion has made a huge leap up in the number of people playing... but in terms of popular acceptance in North America, it's made quite the slide downwards, and depending on where you look, the same is happening.
Popular acceptance world-wide is the key, and that is something that is not happening enough on the big stages where the attention of the masses are. It's not happening because it is TOUGH to fight against popular dogma that the accordion is not a "real" instrument. There has been some advance on that in some pockets where for example a guest accordionist can play with an orchestra, but show me a national symphony orchestra ANYWHERE in the world where the accordion is considered as a regular entity… doesn't exist. Why? Because the accordion is not considered worthy of being considered a symphonic instrument. It's not considered a worthy modern instrument as well... there are not many places in the world that it is considered worthy, though we here all know that it's more than paid it's dues and evolved to become worthy of so much more.
For the rest of the world, there was likely something similar, but much more restrained or understated. The accordion either lost less of it's shine just a little (talking of Mexico, France, Brazil, etc...), or possibly even gained popularity by tens of thousands of new players (talking of China here). Speaking generally, Europe has dropped a lot in some places (Germany... try to find a big music store in/around Frankfurt with any accordions is challenging, but look for guitar stores, there are 1 every few blocks, this per what my sister and mother personally saw earlier this year), and I would hazard that there are pockets in the UK where it has both grown (UK generally) and areas where it has dropped (Scotland).
So in sheer numbers, yes, the accordion has made a huge leap up in the number of people playing... but in terms of popular acceptance in North America, it's made quite the slide downwards, and depending on where you look, the same is happening.
Popular acceptance world-wide is the key, and that is something that is not happening enough on the big stages where the attention of the masses are. It's not happening because it is TOUGH to fight against popular dogma that the accordion is not a "real" instrument. There has been some advance on that in some pockets where for example a guest accordionist can play with an orchestra, but show me a national symphony orchestra ANYWHERE in the world where the accordion is considered as a regular entity… doesn't exist. Why? Because the accordion is not considered worthy of being considered a symphonic instrument. It's not considered a worthy modern instrument as well... there are not many places in the world that it is considered worthy, though we here all know that it's more than paid it's dues and evolved to become worthy of so much more.
Thanks for the added information Jerry! Im not too worried about the accordion not being allowed in symphony orchestras, which are probably in just as much decline. Im thinking about how its breaking into reggaeton....
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maugein96
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Tom pid=66152 dateline=1563642473 said:
Ive seen a few diatonic players in South America play jazz on their instruments as though they were made for the music, and indeed one or two Western European players have done likewise. Are they accordions? Probably not, but a lot of people cannot tell the difference.
As Jerry indicates, the accordion decline appears to be localised, and it just so happens that most of that localised decline seems to have occurred in English speaking countries. Most European countries I can think of still have regional and/or national music that features the accordion in one form or another, and that should ensure that there is demand for the instruments for a long time. Unfortunately those instruments are often widely available as being surplus to requirements, and lack of demand for new instruments seems to be a global issue. That in itself would tend to indicate that even where the accordion still has a following, it perhaps isnt as great as it once was.
In the 50s and 60s in the UK almost everybody knew at least one amateur accordionist personally, and in a village of less than 2000 people I could probably recall the names of at least twenty players who were worthy of the name. I moved away from the area 45 years ago, and I now live in a town of 14,000 inhabitants where I believe there are only a very few players left.
Like all other members of the forum I mourn the absence of an accordion in every street. There are still kids worldwide playing musical instruments that were first conceived hundreds of years ago. However, most of them are a lot less complex and easier to learn than the accordion. Did it arrive too late on the scene, or is it/was it just too elaborate a contraption to last the pace?
Is there a way forward for the accordion? Maybe if they made them with wheels, and pointed them all downhill.
Eddy Yates
Well-known member
JerryPH wrote:”Popular acceptance world-wide is the key, and that is something that is not happening enough on the big stages where the attention of the masses are. It's not happening because it is TOUGH to fight against popular dogma that the accordion is not a ‘real’ instrument.”
Yup. Having dinner with 3 of my best friends tonight, we were talking about a piano two of us have had to play a number of times. It’s a really horrible piano, and my friend, a well respected classical composer and jazz pianist, said, ”Yeah. It’s basically an accordion tipped on its side.”
I didn’t comment, but I see I have some work to do with him. Think I’ll challenge him to write an accordion piece.
Yup. Having dinner with 3 of my best friends tonight, we were talking about a piano two of us have had to play a number of times. It’s a really horrible piano, and my friend, a well respected classical composer and jazz pianist, said, ”Yeah. It’s basically an accordion tipped on its side.”
I didn’t comment, but I see I have some work to do with him. Think I’ll challenge him to write an accordion piece.
StargazerTony
Well-known member
Perhaps someone could enlighten me but I don’t understand why the accordion has to have this huge resurgence and become a world wide phenomenon again? Certainly it can remain a niche instrument that a few of us love. I don’t think there is going to be much more advancement in accordion technology and more manufacturers will close and prices will rise, but there is still a glut of good already made accordions available.
M
maugein96
Guest
Eddy,
The accordion was not accepted as a musical instrument suitable for classical study in the UK until 1986, by which time a lot of people had forgotten what an accordion was.
The thing was that it kept drifting along here for decades prior to that, being played by people who never really cared about the perceived status of the instrument.
Im talking here about chromatic PA and CBA instruments, rather than the various diatonic instruments that are still used for folk and Morris dancing etc. in the UK.
I seem to recall that the PA and CBA variants tended to be used to play music which had been made famous in countries outside of the UK. Italian classics, French musette, American jazz, and a handful of novelty tunes were played in what appeared (to me) to be monotonous succession, and there was no British accordion style that would have been recognisable as such elsewhere. A host of WW2 remembrance type material was also played out for quite a while, and the accordion seemed to suit the music of that era.
However, here in the UK the accordion was always regarded as a foreign invention, and in earlier times particularly, foreign tended to be translated as frowned upon. The multicultural element of British society hadnt really established itself in the accordion heyday, in the same manner as it had in the US, for instance.
Scotland was a special case, in that the chromatic accordion (PA and CBA) was introduced to Scottish Country Dance music, and eventually became well established in that genre, where it is still an indispensable part of the line up. Another type of hybrid instrument, known as the British Chromatic, was also used in the genre, but the PA was always the most popular choice.
I dare not forget about the Northern Ireland of most of my ancestors, which is nowadays part of the UK, but the music of that area is often political and sectarian in nature. I only mentioned it in case somebody thought I had forgotten about it.
My wife was once an avid member of several Scottish Country Dancing clubs here in the Scottish Borders, but can recall a time when they were obliged to rehearse to gramophone records, as there was no suitable accordionist available. Therefore, by the 1970s the music was still popular, but the number of players was already in decline. The tunes of old, and modern compositions in the same vein, are still regularly aired in establishments where they are appreciated. I have no idea how many of those venues are still on the go, although I dont think any of the current third rate pop bands have much to fear.
My 35 year old daughter is sitting opposite me as I type this, and she has reminded me that several current UK bands use accordions. She has rhymed off at least 6 names, including Paolo Nutini.
It seems that perhaps the old instruments are making a comeback after all.
Go to 1:55 in this clip and youll hear a virtuoso player of the most popular musical instrument in Glasgow of all time. His act was condemned at the College of Music as not being musical, as he couldnt play it in 12 keys. His reply was I couldnt give an F#!
Sorry about the horrible rendition of an American accent by a Glaswegian, when he tries to authenticate the music by singing. But, believe me thats not the worst Ive heard.
As much as it may dismay serious students of the instrument, the accordion is generally afforded the same fun status as the harmonica in most of the UK. Any attempt at making it an instrument for serious music study usually raises an eyebrow.
US Country music has been a big feature in the pubs and clubs in the west of Scotland and Ireland for decades, and is often more popular than the local folk material. Even Billy Connolly would entertain audiences with a banjo, playing such tunes as Cripple Creek.
Just off to Castelfidardo to help them dust off the old machines and get them ready for mass production again, as if what my daughter says is true, then a huge accordion revival must be imminent. Mustnt it?
The accordion was not accepted as a musical instrument suitable for classical study in the UK until 1986, by which time a lot of people had forgotten what an accordion was.
The thing was that it kept drifting along here for decades prior to that, being played by people who never really cared about the perceived status of the instrument.
Im talking here about chromatic PA and CBA instruments, rather than the various diatonic instruments that are still used for folk and Morris dancing etc. in the UK.
I seem to recall that the PA and CBA variants tended to be used to play music which had been made famous in countries outside of the UK. Italian classics, French musette, American jazz, and a handful of novelty tunes were played in what appeared (to me) to be monotonous succession, and there was no British accordion style that would have been recognisable as such elsewhere. A host of WW2 remembrance type material was also played out for quite a while, and the accordion seemed to suit the music of that era.
However, here in the UK the accordion was always regarded as a foreign invention, and in earlier times particularly, foreign tended to be translated as frowned upon. The multicultural element of British society hadnt really established itself in the accordion heyday, in the same manner as it had in the US, for instance.
Scotland was a special case, in that the chromatic accordion (PA and CBA) was introduced to Scottish Country Dance music, and eventually became well established in that genre, where it is still an indispensable part of the line up. Another type of hybrid instrument, known as the British Chromatic, was also used in the genre, but the PA was always the most popular choice.
I dare not forget about the Northern Ireland of most of my ancestors, which is nowadays part of the UK, but the music of that area is often political and sectarian in nature. I only mentioned it in case somebody thought I had forgotten about it.
My wife was once an avid member of several Scottish Country Dancing clubs here in the Scottish Borders, but can recall a time when they were obliged to rehearse to gramophone records, as there was no suitable accordionist available. Therefore, by the 1970s the music was still popular, but the number of players was already in decline. The tunes of old, and modern compositions in the same vein, are still regularly aired in establishments where they are appreciated. I have no idea how many of those venues are still on the go, although I dont think any of the current third rate pop bands have much to fear.
My 35 year old daughter is sitting opposite me as I type this, and she has reminded me that several current UK bands use accordions. She has rhymed off at least 6 names, including Paolo Nutini.
It seems that perhaps the old instruments are making a comeback after all.
Go to 1:55 in this clip and youll hear a virtuoso player of the most popular musical instrument in Glasgow of all time. His act was condemned at the College of Music as not being musical, as he couldnt play it in 12 keys. His reply was I couldnt give an F#!
Sorry about the horrible rendition of an American accent by a Glaswegian, when he tries to authenticate the music by singing. But, believe me thats not the worst Ive heard.
As much as it may dismay serious students of the instrument, the accordion is generally afforded the same fun status as the harmonica in most of the UK. Any attempt at making it an instrument for serious music study usually raises an eyebrow.
US Country music has been a big feature in the pubs and clubs in the west of Scotland and Ireland for decades, and is often more popular than the local folk material. Even Billy Connolly would entertain audiences with a banjo, playing such tunes as Cripple Creek.
Just off to Castelfidardo to help them dust off the old machines and get them ready for mass production again, as if what my daughter says is true, then a huge accordion revival must be imminent. Mustnt it?
M
maugein96
Guest
Tom said:
Tom,
The Romans built Hadrian's Wall in the UK in 55 AD, and it seems they stole the idea from China, who were already building fortified walls in 770 BC.
Revenge is sweet.
Tom said:
...sorry Tom, I really don't understand this phrase "enough accordions".... :s
Other Tom
Be careful, Tom, I'll hunt you down and leave them in your car when you're not looking! I transitioned from wannabe repairman to solely wannabe player and have *several* I'm trying to part with.
I pretty much agree with you Tony. It seems to be a concern and interesting discussion topic for a lot of people. I don't have any objection to this, and it's pretty interesting, but not of deep concern to me, and heaven knows I think about a lot of weird things. Mainly I think about how to have less projects so I can find more time to play and more people to play with.StargazerTony said:
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