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How can I tune my E2 note which is being activated by a switch? I don't know where its reed

prako2

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I want to tune my Scandalli Extreme P accordion which seems to have tunning issues since from the factory. I'm a little bit afraid of tunning such an expensive accordion on my first tunning, so I decided to try to tune some Weltmeister. My favorite registration on Scandalli is LMM. It's more empty register (LM) and the switch is turned on (additional M). Basically with the switch turned off, notes sound pretty well, they become worse when I turn on the switch. I managed to successfully block all the reeds of E note by applying tape on an external reed and corresponding leather (in order to block the note while pulling or pushing bellows) on Scandalli, except that one which is activated by the switch (another E2). I tried to do the same thing on Weltmeister and it seems that I blocked all the octaves of Bb note and it no longer sounds when I pull or push bellows weakly but Weltmeister doesn't have a switch, It seems to have only one M. How can I locate that E2 reed that is activated by the switch on Scandalli? It seems that I can't remove the reed block on Scandalli, so it's hard to understand what happens inside. Before trying to block Weltmeister reeds I thought that the switch reed is that under the leather of non-switch E2, but Weltmeister looks to work in the same way, but it doesn't have a switch.
 

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Ben-jammin

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If it were me I would find out how to pull the reed blocks and use a tuning table to find the offending reed and make sure itโ€™s actually a tuning problem and not a valving problem. If I still thought it was a tuning problem I would isolate that reed set in the accordion and take a reading of how off it is and then tune it by the correction on the tuning table.
 

prako2

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If it were me I would find out how to pull the reed blocks and use a tuning table to find the offending reed and make sure itโ€™s actually a tuning problem and not a valving problem. If I still thought it was a tuning problem I would isolate that reed set in the accordion and take a reading of how off it is and then tune it by the correction on the tuning table.
Thanks for the reply. It seems that the reed block on Scandalli is glued. The switch note sounds normally when played alone, so I guess there is a tunning problem. I'm not sure if I would pull out the reed block if it's glued since I don't even know where that reed is.
 

Ben-jammin

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You should be able to bird dog the reed by corresponding the pallet that opens to cause the wrong note with the slider that changes when the register is selected. But even if you find the right reed. Itโ€™s usually best to tune the reed out of the accordion, where you can sound it and adjust it a small bit at a time. For such an expensive instrument maybe itโ€™s best to take to a pro that has more experience.
 

Ventura

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i cannot believe an actual new expensive Scandalli, even this reconstituted scandalli
company, would glue treble reedblocks in place

you may have a bootleg Chinese ripoff

is the guy you bought it from still around ?

the conservatorio extreme models apparently are free bass and have non-conventional key action ,
on the treble side.. why would they go to these engineering lengths then
glue in the reeds ?

impossible

i suggest you contact Scandalli directly
 
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debra

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It is normal for the reed blocks on this type of accordion to be glued in place, because large reed plates themselves are removable (with screws). The reed blocks cannot be removed mainly because they have register sliders inside. It is like this in many "bayan" type bass sides. You see that on the large reed block there are small "side-blocks" mounted that have higher octaves to produce 4-voice base notes. (On most standard accordions tha base notes are multi-voice by combining the low reeds with higher reeds taken from the chords or from higher octaves on melody bass (using couplers). On a bayan-style bass the higher voices of the base notes come from these side-blocks (and are thus not reeds that are used in higher melody-bass notes or in chords). This construction allows the base notes to be lighter to play as each note requires opening just one pallet (whereas in normal accordions the base notes open two pallets, requiring twice the force).
There should be a switch that enables/disabled the high voices in the side-blocks (and that operates register sliders inside the reed block). Some older bayans do not have this switch and always use 4 voice base notes. Most newer bayans have the switch.
Another very important piece of advice: when taping off reeds, use masking tape, not scotch tape. Masking tape leaves (almost) no residu and is easier to pull off without damaging the valves you have taped over.
 

Walker

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I'm a little bit afraid of tunning such an expensive accordion on my first tunning
Being a little bit afraid is a sign! In all kindness, I would say let an expert (someone suggested by the Scandalli authorised dealer perhaps) do it. Or take it to the factory if you can - a summer holiday! It would be a terrible shame if such a magnificent accordion got accidentally damaged.
 

debra

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Now for the tuning... The reed block has L reeds on one side and M reeds on the other side... and then there are the "side blocks" attached to the large block. It's not entirely clear from the pictures whether there is a "side block" on each side of the large block or just on one side. Having one on each side is more common than having it on just one side. The extra side-block(s) do not make the bass LMM but rather something like LMH.
Tuning these side blocks is very tricky because the air/sound from the side-block travels through the same hole as the L (or M) of the main block. The large reeds on the main block influence the tuning of the side block. So when you tape off the large reeds you change the tuning of the small reeds. You essentially have to tune these reeds with both the large and small one sounding. With a standard tuning app you cannot do this. But what does work is to go in "baby steps". Listen to the large and small reed playing together. You hear a tremolo because the small reed is out of tune. But you probably don't hear whether the small reed is too high or too low. You can change the tuning of the small reed a bit and then listen again whether you are moving in the right directly (tremolo gets slower) or not (tremolo goes faster)... This really is job for an experienced repairer, definitely not a beginner. Sadly, many commercial repairers/tuners have little or no experience tuning such bass blocks either...
 

Ventura

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amazing

thank goodness we have Debra and he has this experience

honestly i never would have imagined this construction, as to me
reedblocks with slides built in seems like something out of the dark ages
of accordion history

there is no question sliders built into the plate are more airtight
and less prone to problems, and i thought this was de-facto in all modern construction

do they use this ancient technique because it is the traditional way to do it?

the airflow pathway is amazing though, and i imagine this gives uniqueness to the sound
of the instrument

but yes, an absolute nightmare to tune !

to tune piccolo size reeds by trial and error is horrifying to me
when it is SO easy to snap one off and there is SO LITTLE actual metal to work with/lose..
i mean if you go too far in the wrong direction because of false sounds in your ear,
the reed is quickly easily beyond range and would need replaced

better find a tuner with a lot of patience an a light touch..
 

debra

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...
reedblocks with slides built in seems like something out of the dark ages
of accordion history

This is still "current" in bayans, and my Pigini bass accordion (with registers) has it too.

there is no question sliders built into the plate are more airtight
and less prone to problems, and i thought this was de-facto in all modern construction

do they use this ancient technique because it is the traditional way to do it?

Not sure, but by funneling the airflow into the resonance chamber of the larger reed the pallets can be smaller and thus require less force to operate (to keep closed on push).
the airflow pathway is amazing though, and i imagine this gives uniqueness to the sound
of the instrument

but yes, an absolute nightmare to tune !
I can attest that it is a nightmare indeed. But on the "real" bayan it works pretty well. On the Pigini bass accordion it is a real nightmare because this one has an LMH setup with MH sharing the resonance chamber exit and both being switchable by registers. So this bass accordion has L, LM, LH and LMH but the tuning of both M and H changes when used solo versus used in combination. Both the M and the H reed change frequency depending on whether the other reed is enabled or disabled.
to tune piccolo size reeds by trial and error is horrifying to me
when it is SO easy to snap one off and there is SO LITTLE actual metal to work with/lose..
i mean if you go too far in the wrong direction because of false sounds in your ear,
the reed is quickly easily beyond range and would need replaced

better find a tuner with a lot of patience an a light touch..
Actually, tuning piccolo reeds is only difficult if a previous tuner has already damaged them. If not then it's pretty straightforward, but yeah they are delicate. However, when you consider that for the same note a Russian piccolo reed is only about 2/3 the size of an Italian reed tuning the Italian piccolo reeds is not that difficult at all...
 

Dingo40

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Is your accordion under warranty?
If so, messing with it wlll likely void the warranty: you need to take it to a registered Scandalli dealer.
 

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