How are bass reed combined?

[Beemer]

For a five bass reed accordion is there a standard method of combining reeds? My understanding is that the selection could be:

There is 1 combination of all 5 numbers
There are 5 combinations of 4 numbers out of 5
There are 10 combinations of 3 numbers out of 5
There are 10 combinations of 2 numbers out of 5
There are 5 combinations of 1 number out of 5
So, there are 31 combinations not counting a zero selection

How is each bass reed set tuned in relation to the others?

 

[debra]

The tuning of bass reeds varies a lot between manufacturers and also between accordion models.
With 5 sets of bass reeds the simplest tuning is to use 5 different octaves. This is found in some older Hohner accordions, and also in a lot of accordions with (convertor) melody bass. The result is that in all octaves the "octave jump" is at the same note. This does not mask where that jump is at all.
Accordions with just standard bass often use 1 or even 2 different octave jumps. The lowest two reed banks have the jump in the same place, the third often has it in a different place, the 4th and 5th either in the same place as the third or at yet another place (4th and 5th in the same place, different from the 3rd)...
The main thinking behind having different jumps in different reed banks is to mask where the jumps are. This tries to mimic what is scientifically known as the Shepard tuning (but real Shepard tuning requires that the volume of each note in each octave varies to hide the jump completely.
Apart from this there is the choice of registers... Almost all accordions with only standard bass have 2 pallets per note: one pallet for the lowest two reed banks and one for the higher three reed banks. Only the three higher reed banks play when you play a chord. As a result these accordions cannot have any register that opens just the lowest two reed banks as in that case the chords would not play at all. So to play chords there is a choice between three reed banks, meaning 7 options, excluding the one where all three are off. And then there are 4 options for the lowest reed banks. So there is a total of 28 possible combinations where everything plays, not 31. Accordions with 5 bass reed banks typically offer between 4 and 7 registers. Some combinations of reeds are not used because they don't sound too good because of where the octave jumps are.

 

[Beemer]

Paul,
Thanks for your comprehensive reply. The decision of Scandalli to remove all bass register symbols on the current Air3 made me curious.
Ian

 

[debra]

Paul,
Thanks for your comprehensive reply. The decision of Scandalli to remove all bass register symbols on the current Air3 made me curious.
Ian

There are more accordions with unmarked bass registers, typically long narrow ones. It makes sense because unlike with treble registers you cannot look at the registers while playing in order to select one.

 

[Beemer]

There are more accordions with unmarked bass registers, typically long narrow ones. It makes sense because unlike with treble registers you cannot look at the registers while playing in order to select one.

Paul, I forgot to ask what of the five reed blocks will be in use when the bass master register is used? In my case indicated by a pip on the key?

 

[debra]

Paul, I forgot to ask what of the five reed blocks will be in use when the bass master register is used? In my case indicated by a pip on the key?

The master of course uses all five reed blocks. I rarely use that as I don't like the highest octave in the bass. There is typically some other register that uses the lowest 4 reed banks, and that give a more pleasing sound for my ears.
(I have an older Crucianelli with 5 bass reed banks and 4 registers, all of which include the highest octave, so I just taped off that whole bank and now have 4 registers all with a pleasing sound.)

 

[Beemer]

thanks again.
Ian

 

[petch]

My standard bass accordion has the most bizzare register options (to me). The only register where the lowest reeds are used for the bass notes is combined with just the highest reeds for the chords. Maybe there's some genre that's useful for I've not yet discovered? I'd much rather have had an option of the lowest bass and lowest chords together, with none of the middle or high reeds

 

[dak]

Bass registers (and bass reed configurations and even reedblock design) are the Wild West of accordion building. Essentially every model is rolling the dice new. The purpose of an extreme high/low combination is more or less "bracketing" the melody side with a bass "instrument" in the low tones and something like a cymbal on the chords. You typically want quite different articulations on the "Oom" and the "Pah" then, with the Oom getting a soft release channeling a plucked bass instrument and the Pah being a more staccato percussive ringout.

 

[NovaXxx]

There's no set standard method, so it's all about experimenting to find what sounds best to you.

 

[Glug]

You've got to allow for the bass pallet mechanism - 2 pallets covering bass/tenor and contralto/alto/soprano.
I had trouble working out what my 50's Scandalli was doing so I made a chart of all possible bass registers:


The named ones are what's listed as standard for a 'professional' accordion in the wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stradella_bass_system

 

[Big Squeezy Accordions]

I've often customized accordions with unsatisfactory bass options. The possibilities include changing the bass reeds for a lower pitch, such as making the low note an A, G, or E, instead of the C that is the default low note of older Italian accordions. I did this to my Stradavox, which now has an Earth-shaking low E instead of the original, pitiful low C. Also, altering the register mechanism for more registers than intended. I did this to my Morino, which now has 4 bass registers instead of the original 3. The simplest thing anyone can do to make the bass sound more bass-y is blocking the 5th, highest set of reeds with a piece of masking tape. I recommend this for any accordion that has that 5th set and lacks a register that removes only that set of reeds.

 

[nou]

I've often customized accordions with unsatisfactory bass options. The possibilities include changing the bass reeds for a lower pitch, such as making the low note an A, G, or E, instead of the C that is the default low note of older Italian accordions. I did this to my Stradavox, which now has an Earth-shaking low E instead of the original, pitiful low C. Also, altering the register mechanism for more registers than intended. I did this to my Morino, which now has 4 bass registers instead of the original 3. The simplest thing anyone can do to make the bass sound more bass-y is blocking the 5th, highest set of reeds with a piece of masking tape. I recommend this for any accordion that has that 5th set and lacks a register that removes only that set of reeds.

I honestly don't know why 5th octave is even there. I'm now restoring a Scandalli from the '50s and the first thing I did to the bass side, was to tape that 5th octave, as it sounded seriously out of place. Even the 4th octave is hardly justifiable for me, so due to only having one register, I also taped it for now, until I figure out how to add another register. Now the bass is no longer overpowering the melody played in the most common RH range.

 

[John M]

I've often customized accordions with unsatisfactory bass options. The possibilities include changing the bass reeds for a lower pitch, such as making the low note an A, G, or E, instead of the C that is the default low note of older Italian accordions. I did this to my Stradavox, which now has an Earth-shaking low E instead of the original, pitiful low C. Also, altering the register mechanism for more registers than intended. I did this to my Morino, which now has 4 bass registers instead of the original 3. The simplest thing anyone can do to make the bass sound more bass-y is blocking the 5th, highest set of reeds with a piece of masking tape. I recommend this for any accordion that has that 5th set and lacks a register that removes only that set of reeds.

That's what is nice about the low note for the bass on a Roland 8X. It can be any note of the scale.

 

[dak]

That's what is nice about the low note for the bass on a Roland 8X. It can be any note of the scale.

I thought that was only valid for orchestral bass?

By the way, I can only play around with very few aspects because I have an FR-1b (rather old) where you cannot change the bass notes for a given instrument at all (orchestral or not). But I think (and I may well be mistaken) that the sent MIDI data for a given standard bass note does not depend on where the chosen instrument happens to have its octave break. I'd need to experiment to make sure, though. And I have no idea how the transposition function interplays with the actual octave break and the sent MIDI data. Actually, I don't think the transposition function is a high priority for Roland: on my FR-1b with firmware version 2.0.0, using it in connection with (Hammond) organ sounds will transpose the treble MIDI data twice. This use case cannot have seen an awful lot of testing I think.

 

[John M]

You are exactly right Dave! I thought I would throw that in there to see if anyone would catch it. It's only on the Orch. Bass. The Accordion Bass just allows the choice of 16' & 8' and choice of Volume between the two. With your older FR-1b, I didn't think you would know about the 8X. You must do a lot of reading.