• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks

Help me identify this used serenelli

Tiago

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
6
Location
Montreal, Canada
So I bought this used serenelli , it has a lot of work to do in it... dust ... the bass part is chaotic ... and even there are some missing screews and even two notes missing in one Reed... I hope to put him working some day. Any idea of wich year it should been produced?20210912_165238.jpg
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,801
Reaction score
299
Mid 1940 to mid 1950 judged by the waterfall keys & grill design.
 

Tiago

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
6
Location
Montreal, Canada
So I never saw registers with musical keys can you help to identify the configuration of the treble side, LMMH?
20210914_013817.jpg
 

Attachments

  • 20210914_013826.jpg
    20210914_013826.jpg
    164.1 KB · Views: 4
  • 20210914_013839.jpg
    20210914_013839.jpg
    192.9 KB · Views: 4

Dingo40

Been here for ages!
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
2,121
Reaction score
681
Location
South Australia
Hi Tiago,
I'm open to correction by members (eg, Paul and Jim D), but to me it looks as if you have three treble reeds only: L, M & H.
These are arranged as HL (organ), L (Basoon), H (Picolo), MH (Clarinet), HML (Master) and ML (Bandoneon), with several ( including Organ & Basoon) repeated: a common practice.🀫
Obviously, if there are actually four reeds, I'm well out!πŸ˜„
 
Last edited:

Tiago

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
6
Location
Montreal, Canada
Hey Dingo maybe with a picture from the inside is easier. I have no expertise with accordions but it seems to me 2 of each kind......
 

Attachments

  • 20210914_042037.jpg
    20210914_042037.jpg
    244.8 KB · Views: 15

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
591
Reaction score
152
Location
London UK
I think I can see 21 reed plates on one row, I'm guessing half of the rows have 20 plates.
So that's 164 reed plates, or 328 reeds.
Which is the correct number for LMMH or LMMM with 41 keys.

It also seems to have 15 register switches which would be a lot for LMH, 9-11 is 'normal' for LMMH.
But there could easily be repeats at the ends.

If you can do photos of the note motif all the way from left to right it would be easier to tell.

Alternatively you can take the reed blocks out and see what the switches do to the register slides.
 

Dingo40

Been here for ages!
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
2,121
Reaction score
681
Location
South Australia
Tiago,
Thanks for the picture of the inside.
Clearly, this instrument has 4 sets of treble reeds, and my earlier estimate is way off!, sorry😐
 

Tiago

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
6
Location
Montreal, Canada
I think I can see 21 reed plates on one row, I'm guessing half of the rows have 20 plates.
So that's 164 reed plates, or 328 reeds.
Which is the correct number for LMMH or LMMM with 41 keys.

It also seems to have 15 register switches which would be a lot for LMH, 9-11 is 'normal' for LMMH.
But there could easily be repeats at the ends.

If you can do photos of the note motif all the way from left to right it would be easier to tell.

Alternatively you can take the reed blocks out and see what the switches do to the register slides.
Thank you Glug, yes they are 15 registers. So here I took 5 pictures showing 3 in each picture... from left to right or up to down if the box was in my leap...
 

Attachments

  • 20210914_054748.jpg
    20210914_054748.jpg
    156.9 KB · Views: 8
  • 20210914_054759.jpg
    20210914_054759.jpg
    169.7 KB · Views: 8
  • 20210914_054808.jpg
    20210914_054808.jpg
    207.9 KB · Views: 8
  • 20210914_054816.jpg
    20210914_054816.jpg
    201.6 KB · Views: 8
  • 20210914_054823.jpg
    20210914_054823.jpg
    188.1 KB · Views: 8

Glug

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
591
Reaction score
152
Location
London UK
I think it's using approximately the same notation as a late 50s Scandalli:

04a.jpg

On that there are 4 dots which are L,M,M+,H from bottom to top of each switch.

That would make your switches

LH, M, H,
L, MH, LM,
LMH, LMM+H, M+H,
MM+H, LM+H, LMM+,
MM+, LM+, LH

Which is an unsually large selection of registers but does make sense, it even has master in the middle.
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,801
Reaction score
299
Glug, Your similarity is right on,(y)
 

nagant27

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 22, 2013
Messages
418
Reaction score
24
Once you remove the blocks, maybe grab a few pix of the reeds and post them. We can try to figure if they are hand made or what not, and the quality. That’s always a good interesting discussion. Serenelli made sone very good instruments.
 

Tiago

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
6
Location
Montreal, Canada
The part of the bass is in a really bad shape so I took off yesterday to try to figure the functioning of the bass side (7 buttons).. the beewax is old ... two notes ln the smallest reed of the bass side "unglued". I have them in a small plastic bag. I will send the pictures I arrive at home.
 

Tiago

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
6
Location
Montreal, Canada
Here are the pictures of the loosen notes of the smallest reed of the bass side.
 

Attachments

  • 20210914_172741.jpg
    20210914_172741.jpg
    190.2 KB · Views: 14
  • 20210914_172823.jpg
    20210914_172823.jpg
    151 KB · Views: 14
  • 20210914_172904.jpg
    20210914_172904.jpg
    180 KB · Views: 14

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,801
Reaction score
299
Machine made but in fine condition.
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,801
Reaction score
299
I should mention that commercial (machine made) reeds "are in no way inferior" to hand fitted or hand made reeds. The quality depends
on the maker. Some of todays machine made reeds are made with modern C&C machines with tolerances that rival many brands of
hand made reeds produced in the past.
 

Tiago

Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2021
Messages
12
Reaction score
6
Location
Montreal, Canada
So I'm planning to take this accordion to the repairman to ask for his opinion and the potential costs. If you guys can give some advice it would be nice.
My history:
So I started to play maybe 3 months ago or less in a 48 bass 34 keys Bai-le that I bought from a neighbor, she told that was in the case for the last 20 and some years... it needs some valves replacement and some tuning maybe, or it's only dust and he valves... I was in doubt to send it to tune... and loose the days without any accordion to practice... or to seling it as it was and paying the difference to change for one tuned..... than I started to watch tons of videos of repairmans and started to look for another ocasion accordion I found this serenelli in bad shape but hopping to put it to work again as I would not have the money to buy one accordion with 4 voices new.... all of its keys of the piano side are working with some noise I think it's the dust in the pads as I cleaned a ton of the dust from the exterior... the bellows has no bad smell or apparent flaws... not much pressure but I think is caused by the pads dust.... all registers in both sides keys and bass working an both metal tables are closing and opening properly internally... the bigger problems... as you saw the wax of the bass reeds is "outdated"... the part of the bottom where are the feet has no screws or pins to close, so I just putted a soft tape to test it without having to hold with my hand I have no idea if new screws or pins will hold it .... the collums of the bass and counter bass are working properly... the other 4 are a mess. I opened and saw that the wood that is outside holding the bass mechanism "unglued" that is causing the problem in the 4 exterior columns of the bass... judging with my eyes impression I have one maybe two "buttons stems" that are not straight anymore. And last the button to take off the air of the bellows is broken.
So I would like to ask do you think that worth to repair it?
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,801
Reaction score
299
With the age and condition of you box and the condition of your bass machine, I'm afraid this advice will also apply to yours ----


 

Similar threads

Top