Hello - and a question or two

[Panya37]

Hi there, I am a 'mature' novice from Scotland, gearing up to buying my first PA. I had 14 years of piano training in my youth and I'm hoping the essential brain-wiring is still there waiting to be re-activated! My main interest is now in playing Scottish and Irish traditional music.

I want to buy a decent instrument and at the moment the leading contenders are either a Vignoni or Fantini with 4 reeds on the treble side, so that I can have a choice of wettish (Scottish) or dry (Irish) tuning.

My main uncertainty is this: I was settled on buying a 34-key/72 bass model; but when I was trying various accordions out, the shop-owner suggested that for my height (5ft 11 with a longish back) I would be better off with the 37-key/96 version. He felt the extra length would mean the weight of the accordion could be supported on my leg with the instrument still at the best level for playing. He said I didn't need the extra notes for the type of music I wanted to play - only to give me a more comfortable playing position.

I don't know enough to be sure that this is sound advice or just a personal preference of the person concerned. I certainly do want some leg-support for the weight of the instrument and I guess the longer keyboard maybe did feel more of a good 'fit' -- but I am not experienced enough to know what a good fit is.

Most traditional music players who play PA seem to have 34-key keyboards; and some of them at least look reasonably tall (Phil Cunningham?)

I just have a nagging doubt about buying a slightly larger, heavier instrument than most people playing trad. music seem to find necessary. Any thoughts welcome.

 

[Glenn]

Hi Panya,

Welcome to the forum.
As a novice I would not go all out and splurge huge amounts of money on your first accordion.
If you buy a half-decent second hand one you can always trade it in (or sell privately) with very little loss.
If you buy a new instrument it will be a more expensive exercise if you find you've bought the wrong one.
Maybe a dealer can give you a guarantee that if the accordion he/she sells doesn't suit you you can go back and swap it for another.

Good luck.

 

[Soulsaver]

Well he was probably right if you want to sit all the time - but if, like most trad players, you wish to walk around and play, you'll wish you'd bought a 72 for the weight saving..
I like 96s over 72 but I tend only to sit and play, although at this stage I don't really need the flexibility the extra keys offer. Glenn makes a reasonable point, because a lot of people are surprised they don't make the apparent 'easy' transition from piano to PA, but if buying privately 2nd hand and you look after the instrument you won't find a massive loss selling on, in the event it doesn't work out. Good luck, hope to hear how you do with the search.

 

[bocsa]

Just for your consideration...
Steve Clinkscale in Melrose has several boxes on offer via ebay, might be worth a phone call if youre located near Melrose.
Robert Rolston stocks Manfrini but also has others, new and used, for sale, as does John Douglas in Dumfries.

Have you looked here? http://www.accordions.co.uk/80&96.htm

Theres also an Allodi Fantini for sale on ebay from The Music Room in Cleckheaton, Yorks:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fantini-A..._MusicalInstr_Keyboard_RL&hash=item2c935f47fe

I have the same model, if you can afford similar itll be better than spending less on a lesser instrument with a low resale value!
Its as Soulsaver says, a 96 is fine for playing sat down but I wouldnt want to walk far/stand for too long with mine

 

[Panya37]

Thanks for the thoughtful replies everyone. Soulsaver, you have clarified the size issue; I mostly see myself sitting to play at home and (hopefully) eventually at casual sessions. So I will take the original advice to get a 96 bass/37-key. If I get to the point of doing stuff which requires standing and walking around I guess I'd be committed enough to get a second, smaller instrument.

I know I may be naive about the transition from piano to accordion; but in my defence when I tried out accordions in the shop the owner was surprised I hadn't played before and said I was obviously going to find it an easy transition. Yes, maybe I am over-nervous about getting a second-hand starter instrument. I'll look into that. But I am a long way away from Dumfries, and even further from Melrose; I'm up in the Highlands as it happens, near Inverness. If I can find a four-reed model of the right size (I really, really want the option of choosing dry or Scottish musette tuning) I might go for it.

 

[Reedwarbler]

I wouldnt disagree with the suggestion that the 37 note accordion might be more comfortable but it is also a matter of what you can get used to and if size is a factor regarding weight etc. then a smaller accordion may be the way to go.

Just to add a bit more confusion..............there are 34 note accordions that have 96 bases. Vignoni make a couple of models.

I have the model shown in the video below and it has a great sound.

 

[Soulsaver]

Guerrini do a nice 4voice 96 Oxford III, musettes are usually Scottish tuned. Look to pay c £1 -1.2k private, maybe £500 more from a dealer with warranty, for a good one.
Listen here:

Dealer (London, no connection0 -http://www.accordions.co.uk/secpicsviewdocs.htm/GuerOx.htm

 

[Panya37]

Wow, all very helpful though I'm getting more confused by the minute! Reedwarbler, that very video was the one that drew my attention to Vignoni - I even like the 'wood' finish. I love the look of wooden accordions and my brother - who plays fiddle at a lot of sessions - says they give you a touch more street cred (though in truth he is very anti-accordion; he has been scarred by insensitive show-offs dominating sessions by playing - badly - with all reeds blaring). Though some may think that 'wood effect' is naff I thought it may be a good compromise from both the price and prone-ness-to-damage points of view.

Reedwarbler - not meaning to be too personal but are you also quite tall? If I know for sure that someone else tall gets on fine playing a 34 key/96 bass model seated it would help.

Soulsaver - that Guerrini sounds lovely to me. I do go to London sometimes so maybe I have to make the pilgrimage to Allodi's. Meantime I'll keep learning the keys by playing on my tablet with the 'Accordion' app. Sad but true, lol.

 

[bocsa]

... If I know for sure that someone else tall gets on fine playing a 34 key/96 bass model seated it would help.

Allodi Fantini SP4 (37/96) ..... 63 ...no problems

 

[george garside]

Both weight and bulk are important considerations, particularly for 'mature' players e to play in and also if you want to be able to play in comfort for fairly lengthy periods of time.

34 key treble will be more than enough for traditional Scottish and Irish stuff as will 60 or 72 bass i. ( 60 is same as 72 but without diminished cords)

As a trad /folk player my advice would be to go for the lightest and most compact box that sounds ok.

george

 

[Reedwarbler]

Reedwarbler - not meaning to be too personal but are you also quite tall? If I know for sure that someone else tall gets on fine playing a 34 key/96 bass model seated it would help.

I think bosca has answered that question for you.

The short answer (pun not intended or otherwise) is that I am not tall.

The long answer is that I normally play a 41key/120 bass and have done so for several years. A couple of years ago I wanted to get a much lighter weight accordion so that it was easy to put on and take off and it also enabled me to get a model with different tuning to that of my 41/120.

Each accordion is played resting on my lap and so the height of the keys & buttons of the 34/96 are lower, and being a lighter accordion I find that it does move around a lot more easily that the larger one.

However, I have accepted that this is what I have had to get used to each time I play the smaller accordion. This is why I made the comment in my earlier post about it being ….a matter of what you can get used to and if size is a factor regarding weight etc. then a smaller accordion may be the way to go.

If the small accordion will be your only accordion then I feel that you get used to it.

How one interfaces and interacts with an accordion is so subjective and personal and I feel that one needs to try out each size over as long a period of time as possible. I appreciate that not all dealers have every size and make in stock.

I have purchased my accordions from Allodi’s over the years (I have no connection with him other than being a customer) and so if you can make the “pilgrimage”, as you put it, I think it would be worthwhile. A good accordion, well chosen, is good long term investment, musically.

 

[george garside]

Have you contacted ''The Highland accordion & fiddle Club'', Inverness. (google will bring it up). They will be able to supply you with a wealth of information and members may well let you try some different boxes. They may also know of boxes for sale etc. Their regular monthly gatherings are open to non members

george

 

[Panya37]

Thanks George - point taken. I obviously need to stop thinking about this and try out some more accordions. Another visit to a good shop is pencilled in the diary.

 

[Panya37]

Hi there, I just wanted to say - a bit late, I know - I overlooked that there were two very kind and helpful responses to my original post on a second page which is why I totally ignored them in my last posting. That must have seemed rather rude. Apologies to Reedwarbler and George Garside!

UPDATE: I took all of your patient advice on board and also, have been given an opportunity to try out a 34 key/72 bass Chanson PA which I can keep hold of until I get my real accordion. I am so happy to get started! {} It has already given me a far better idea of what I want. One thing is clear: 34-key/72 (or 96) bass is plenty enough accordion for me! And posture-wise it seems just fine.

I will get down to Allodis in London, probably in around 3-4 months, and will doubtless appreciate the great accordions there all the more for having started on a rather... modest one.

Discovering Sandy Brechin has certainly given me pause for thought about accordion size for Celtic music, e.g: -





At the very least it has made me think carefully about how many reeds/couplers are needed; certainly in his case less is definitely more.

 

[Soulsaver]

Ah, well... it's borrowed.. and it's a start - both good.
Watch that Brechin bloke, 48 bass may not sound so good in the hands of a mere mortal.. and it may have had it's tuning altered - so you may not find an untested (ebay for example) one sounds the same, but you could quiz the lady selling near enough the same model in our for sale section - her feller is a fettler, so it's sure to b sound. No connection.

 

[Panya37]

I hope I might discover the secrets of Sandy Brechin's accordion eventually. He teaches in my original home town of Edinburgh and I go down there quite often to visit family. Once I have a vague idea of what I am doing I will see if I can arrange the occasional lesson with him.

 

[Rebeka]

At the very least it has made me think carefully about how many reeds/couplers are needed;

I've not changed from musette since I was about 12 and thought that The Dark Island played on the clarinet coupler was the height of accordion sophistication