Greetings from sunny Somerset, England CBA beginner

[Windstrel]

After many years playing wind instruments (sax, flute and clarinet) in pub folk music sessions and ceilidhs, I've now become fascinated by the musical possibilities that the CBA offers. I've also realised that I am at the beginning of a very long and challenging journey.

Since my accordion is a Roland fr3 xb, that journey is especially interesting because of the diversity of accordion sound settings it offers.

I look forward to sharing this journey with the many on this forum who are more expert than myself

 

[TomBR]

Hi and a very warm welcome. In common with other CBA-ers here (many are converts from pianobox rather than ab initio like yourself) I think you've made a great choice. With CBA I reckon you'll be doing more musically, sooner, than you could with almost any other instrument.
B or C system?
Tom

 

[Windstrel]

Thanks for your welcome Tom. My other half is also learning the CBA with me. Previously she's been a piano player and violinist but has been delighted with the layout of everything and especially the simpler petterns that enable different keys to be played.

However, after many years being confident and at ease with sight reading, it's quite a novel experience and a humbling one to be struggling to find the notes on the right hand.

Excitingly, we bought a back strap at a folk festival recently and that has stopped the instrument moving about so much so the keys tend now to be where they were the last time we tried to press them. A small step forward in itself but they all add up!

We've opted for the C system mainly, if illogically, because we quite like playing french folk tunes. The only tutorial book we could find was in French though which has added to the novelty of the experience. It's by a guy called Manu Maugain (Methode d,accordeon - debutants) Being in french adds an additional barrier but we're getting there <EMOJI seq="263a"></EMOJI>

 

[maugein96]

Hi Windstrel,

Welcome to the forum.

Manu Maugain's course runs to three volumes, as you may be aware, and he uses a more modern approach to fingering with the right hand. The accompanying CDs are quite handy, but with your previous musical skills you may not require them. There is a lot of myth and mystique about CBA, but if you lived in France or Portugal they are more common than PA boxes.

I've never even seen a Roland accordion, let alone played one. You're probably as well to keep it programmed for C system, to comply with Maugain's teaching method, although later on you might want to try B, or any other systems it offers.

My advice would be to stick with Maugain's method and move onto his volume 2 when ready. If you don't do that then you'll probably set yourselves back some. I know as I had to try and teach myself the whole show with very little knowledge of musical theory, and kept reading that somebody else's method was better. Each new method meant virtually starting from scratch, and I think I maybe tried about 5 different ones before I settled on the Ferrero method, which is also French. I wasn't able to work through the whole of his course as I couldn't understand half of the text, and there was no such thing as "gobbledegook translate" or the internet in those days.

Very recently I became aware of the existence of a fairly local CBA teacher, who has only been playing CBA for 8 years, but had played PA for 40 years before that. I decided to go back to school and discovered I had developed every known accordion technique "fault" there is. I had even developed some faults of my own invention, that he has never seen before. However, one thing is very clear, and that is there is absolutely no "correct" way to finger a CBA. He shows me ways to use all 5 rows to minimise hand and finger movement to improve my accuracy, and I show him alternative fingerings concentrating on the outside three rows, so that my accuracy isn't compromised by straying into the uncharted territory of something called a "5th row"! He hates to see me with my thumb on the side of the treble keyboard, but that was the way I learned it. I'm slowly getting used to resting it on the next button I'm about to play, but I'm 65 and have been playing (as an amateur) for over 30 years. It's obviously his way or no way, so my 5th row buttons are now getting a hammering. (I have two boxes with only 4 rows). Incidentally he doesn't use any teaching method whatsoever, but devises fingering appropriate for every tune and that's what we both use. We'll tackle just about anything but the most difficult French musette tunes, and I'm happy enough with that. I certainly couldn't have gone back to "page one, lesson one."

One thing I will say is, if you start as late as I did (about 32), you have to appreciate that the finger and hand positions some of the virtuosi use will simply not be attainable for you. The aging process starts to kick in relatively early, and those tendons and other muscles have already began to lose their flexibility. Despite that you should get a lot of fun out of playing, especially when you get to find out those little tricks you can put into a CBA that are almost impossible for most PA players.

Good luck with your progress, and if you can find a local CBA teacher, it may be worth getting acquainted. It could save you a lot of "re-learning" later on. A lot of people, myself included, thought the accordion looked easy to play. I thought it was just a case of adapting my guitar skills to another instrument. For about the 143,887th time in my life I got that one distinctly wrong!

 

[Windstrel]

Hi Maugein96

What a lovely welcome and so much excellent advice.

I smiled when you said you had started late at the age of 32. I'm now in my second year of learning the CBA and am 69 years young lol!

I'm about half way through the Manu book but have stopped going any further because I wanted to start playing the sort of music I usually play when I'm playing in pub sessions on my wind instruments. These are simple folk tunes eg Irish, English, Klezmer, Cornish, Scandinavian etc. Although I read music when necessary to learn a tune, most of my playing is done by ear and from memory. It's just simply too difficult to balance music on a music stand in a busy pub and the general rule is that the other musicians will be playing by ear too. Tunes are often just played three times through before someone chips in with a new one. So my objectives on the accordion are sort of quite limited and developing advanced sight reading skills is perhaps not necessary. However, at my early stage of accordion development, I'd probably be foolish to rule anything out <EMOJI seq="263a"></EMOJI>

The other difficulty is that a lot of tunes I play have been picked up by ear and I've never seen them written down. Indeed, they are quite likely slightly different depending on the musician that plays them.

However, there are a fair number of folk tune books available with chords so I can turn to them for the chords in many cases, although I'm going to have to work many of them out myself where I know the tune but haven't got a book to refer to and can't find it online and so identifying appropriate chords for a tune is another skill I'll have to develop.

Of course, the Roland is actually electronic. It looks and plays like any other CBA but has an incredible variety of optional sounds and features that enormously add to the challenge of playing but also add to the exciting possibilities. I've actually spent much of today trying to play bagpipe sounds including the drone lol!

Yes, I've actually worried quite a lot about the physical side of playing my accordion at my slightly advanced age. I think I've now decided that the more exercise my fingers get the better. I could be wrong but three years ago my knees were shot with worn out cartilage according to my doctor and I could hardly walk. Too many years of playing club tennis had taken it's toll. The doc said that if I developed legs like tree trunks, it didn't matter if I had no cartilage because the ham and quad muscles would cushion my knee joints. So I got an exercise bike and did 20k a day to strengthen my legs. Several years later I'm back on the tennis courts and running around like a young lamb.

 

[dunlustin]

Welcome here and to the CBA adventure - bravo for the Roland too!
You might find Basil Buneliks stuff of interest (hes in Totnes):
http://www.squeezydoesit.com/
Also his books - see under Music on his site
He includes CD and video support, great value. Its PA, so no good for fingering, but a fresh approach.
(In the Beginners, Avoid the early tune in F#minor - it only works because its all the black notes on a PA!)
Personally, Im not so fond of Manu Maugain. If you fancied another course, you could try Richard Galliano. I like the way he includes interesting Left Hand practice early on.
Do you know The Session.org website for |Trad stuff - sheet music , printouts, recordings and loads of versions.
Ive been squeezing things for about 50 years but only took up CBA about 6 years ago and just wish Id done it sooner - so much to learn and enjoy.

 

[TomBR]

..... although Im going to have to work many of them out myself where I know the tune but havent got a book to refer to and cant find it online and so identifying appropriate chords for a tune is another skill Ill have to develop.

My guess (from personal experience) is that this will come sooner, and easier, than you might expect. It doesnt take long for a relationship to build up between the right and left hands whereby youll find that you can put three chord trick chords to a tune pretty much right first time without conscious thought, that is, if youre playing the tune on the right hand.

Its up to you what fingering strategy you adopt, of course. As a right hand three row-er I think the patterns are pretty obvious, its no wonder the subconscious gets the idea!

Tune in C - first row chord root. Of the other two chords needed for three chord trick the root of F is third row. Root of G is middle row.
Those roots and the associated third and fifth notes that make up each chord give patterns which are followed or implied in the right hand tune. They will leak over to your left hand! Your right hand soon tells the left hand what chords to play!

The same applies to the other two rows.
Tune in G - second row chord root. Root of C = first row. Root of D = third row.
Tune in D - third row chord root. Root of G = second row. Root of A = third row.

And thats it - all keys covered by starting in different places on the three rows.

Good luck and happy playing!
Tom

 

[maugein96]

Hi Maugein96

What a lovely welcome and so much excellent advice.

I smiled when you said you had started late at the age of 32. Im now in my second year of learning the CBA and am 69 years young lol!

Hello again.

I keep forgetting that a lot of young tearaways are older than I am! If I was honest Manu Maugains teaching method is not my favourite one, but an old pro player once told me to stick to one method until you reach the stage where your fingers start to go where you want them, then throw the book away as youll develop your own fingering method to suit your playing style and capabilities.

Im much the same as you with regard to learning vs playing. I dont like playing from scores, but have recently had to begin that again, of my own making.

If you are already confident playing along with others then youre further along the road than Ill ever be, so dont get too bogged down with the books and just enjoy playing.

Playing on the outside three rows, as suggested by Tom, is easier to remember. Once you get into the 4th and 5th rows it is easy to get lost, at least in the early stages. All of my accordions have single coloured buttons without any contour markings, so I have to memorise everthing. No point in looking down, as it will serve no purpose at all. It is sometimes the case that I have to push a treble button in to test I have the correct one, before starting a tune. In a band that might not be possible, but once you get the hang of it youll be able to pick up on things very quickly.

 

[Windstrel]

Thanks for your welcome Dunlustin, especially your support for the Roland. Coming from a very traditional folk scene where occasionally even my soprano sax has been frowned on (although I keep its volume well under control), I'm still quite nervous about the Roland's acceptance in circles where I normally play due to it being electronic. I've introduced it in a limited way in local sessions where I live which has brought comments but not complaints. It will be interesting when I take it to sessions at folk festivals lol!

Totnes is an interesting place full of good things including some nice pub sessions. I'll check out that guy's website.

The session.org is a great resource which I've visited many times. Folk tune finder .com is also good when we come home with a new tune in our heads from a session and want to check out the dots but don't know the name of the tune. Typing in the beginning of the tune often quickly finds it.

Tom and Maugein96, your comment on using the outside three rows is very interesting. I've been sticking to using the one pattern for each key since I started playing tunes I wanted to play instead of the exercises in the tutor book. Mostly that means playing in the key of G or D which are favourite folky keys and that puts me starting on the second or third rows and yes you are right it's easy to get lost and finding the starting note requires a few key presses usually.

I've wondered about the benefits of keeping to the first three rows and learning the extra finger patterns (as the Manu book teaches) but at my age speed is of the essence and up to now the easiest option to get another tune under my belt has been to use the single pattern and start on the second or third row. However, it would fit in better with my wind instrument mentality to have one note for one sound as I would have in one of my woodwind instruments and maybe easier to make faster progress playing new tunes (new on the accordion that is) by ear.

As always I'm hugely grateful for all these helpful comments <EMOJI seq="263a"></EMOJI>

 

[maugein96]

They've taught one CBA fingering for each scale across 5 rows in Scotland since Christ left Dumbarton, and I don't think they'll ever change it now.

Do whatever you think will suit your needs. There is often an advantage to every disadvantage as my Irish grandfather would have told me.

If you look at the Roland manual you'll see that the treble side can be configured to different types of system. All of those systems are currently in use, so what fingering will a student of Finnish C system use? His/her C is in the third and not the first row? We all get by with whatever we can manage, and I've no idea why the Finns prefer that version of C system.

Roland sounds are what they are. Some of us (myself included) aren't too keen on the instruments, but as I say I've never even seen one. When they first came on the scene they were regarded as a bit of a novelty, but that "novelty" has been around for a long time now, and IMHO the sounds are improving considerably. I would imagine pub audiences will love it, folk audiences perhaps less so. There is an element of "snobbery" amongst accordionists over the fact that they aren't true accordions. An electronic digital keyboard isn't a real piano, but millions of people get a lot of fun out of playing them.

Digital music will probably never be for everybody, but then neither will the accordion in any shape or form.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hello Windstrel,

I must apologise for not spotting you introduction sooner.

Anyway, a warm welcome to the forum, where I am sure you will feel right at home. I am on the PA side of the debate, though I know that there are quite a few CBA devotees on here. (some of whom you have already met)

I was just short of 68 when I first picked up an accordion, which I recognise to be a bit late in the day. Still, I love my three PA's, and enjoy every minute of my playing.

Like yourself, I often play in folk clubs, though I don't always play folk music. I played Clarinet in the early 60's, and often made guest appearances with my Cousin's folk group. They were amazing times.

I look forward to reading accounts of your progress.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Windstrel]

Hi Stephen

Many thanks for your kind welcome, especially your comment on age of beginning to play the accordion. Interesting that so many accordion players come to the accordion after playing other musical instruments.

Both myself and my other half, who plays the violin, play melodic instruments and it is our idea that by both learning the accordion we will be able to accompany each other musically. However sometimes it is a bit of a fight to see who can get up their hands on the accordion for practising purposes first each day. Plus, if I am really ever to be any good, putting 10,000 hours of practice under my belt as seems necessary to become truly expert at anything would put my age well over that when I would be receiving a telegram from the Queen.

However one thing I've always thought that marks a musician as been truly a musician is the joy we have in practicing our instruments. So it is not only the end that matters but also the journey that is very pleasant.

I've just been playing a very nice folk music tune by a folk musician called Nick Barber which is a lovely haunting tune called Never Again. It is an absolute pleasure to play at any time whether in practice or performance.

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Windstrel,

Yes, my age now begins with a 7, so I am stretching my brain to somewhere near its limit. (or maybe beyond)

It sounds silly now, but I decided to take up the accordion in order that I could accompany my own singing. I could have bought myself a Clarinet (an instrument with which I was confident) but I knew I couldn't play it and sing at the same time.

I now find that I still can't play and sing at the same time, and have the additional problem of my tongue sticking out of the side of my mouth when I play the accordion. My brain appears unable to cope with the complexities of playing the accordion and singing, which has kind of defeated the object.

Still, mustn't grumble. I love playing my accordions. (however badly)

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Stephen,

Reason I'm not much of a player is I cannot manage the facial expressions. Years ago I even tried playing with my eyes shut like Galliano, but stood on one of my granddaughter's roller skates and the box went through a glass display cabinet!

 

[Windstrel]

For many years I've enjoyed the expressions on squeezebox players faces as I sat there smuggly playing my saxophone or flute. I even wondered if they had special grimaces for particular chords.

Now that I have joined the band of squeezeboxers, I understand better how complicated the whole process is of playing tunes and chords at the same time and I'm trying to train myself not to grimace every time I play a wrong chord in front of other people hoping that if I don't grimace they perhaps won't know about my mistake lol!

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi John,

Are you sure you weren't actually roller skating when you went through that cabinet? You do know that skating AND playing the accordion is an extreme sport, don't you?

Hi Windstrel,

Gurning is perfectly acceptable for an accordionist, especially us older ones. As for playing notes correctly, I am in the "Eric Morcambe" camp. "I play all the right notes, but not necessarily in the right order." Luckily for me, our lovely Folk Club members only laugh with you when you play a bum note ... never at you.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Stephen,

Got a glazier to fix the pane I broke, and about a month later I accidentally knocked a heavy flower vase off the top of the same display cabinet. Luckily I caught the vase before it hit the floor, but in doing so I shoved it through the same side panel as I'd smashed with the box earlier.

Life can be a "pane", or even two, sometimes. I glued the poor balloon lady's head back on but got found out as another ornament had also broken and I hadn't noticed it.

Not an extreme sport, as fortunately all that happened was the roller skate made me stumble against the side panel of the cabinet and the bass side of the accordion did the rest. I now play with both eyes open at all times, but I feel sorry for Galliano, as I bet his house is full of broken glass and ornaments!

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi John,

I occasionally shut my eyes when playing, but this may be a mere affectation. Maybe I subconsciously think that closing my eyes makes me look more studious. Who knows?

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

 

[Windstrel]

As I often play in pub sessions where different musicians jump in to start (and end) tunes, I tend to look at whoever started the tune so I know when they are going to stop so we can have a good ending.

Whenever my other half is playing her fiddle and is leading a piece of music, I watch her bow strokes so I can be absolutely in synch with her timing.

If I'm leading some music, especially lyrical and soft, I do sometimes close my eyes but know this can be very dangerous as I have a tendency ... to fall asleep lol!

 

[Stephen Hawkins]

Hi Windstrel,

Oh, you wouldn't fall asleep when I am playing my Arietta. It is a loud instrument, which means that I can (and do) drown out unwanted and unsolicited accompaniment.

Some of our members are great, and I love it when they strum along with me. They follow the principle player sympathetically, and never play louder than the principle player. Very occasionally, we have guests who do not understand this simple etiquette. One guy in particular thinks it is okay to just play along with everyone, and never puts his guitar down all evening. Or at least that was the case until I had serious words with him. I haven't seen him since.

Brenda & I have been playing for dementia groups under the umbrella of AGEUK. We also play in a number of Care Homes on a regular basis, and I have now formed a little ensemble of musicians to help with this project. Though I say so myself, it has made a very real difference to the lives of people who have little to cheer about.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.