Giulietti accordions - not so popular in Europe?

[neilson]

I was flicking through TikTok and realised that most of the people I follow play Giuliettis (yeah, I'm that nuts).

Seriously, most of the top players in Brazil like:

Clayton Gama:
View attachment 8074

Mestrinho:

View attachment 8071

Or this lady (Denise Maciel) I didn't know about until this afternoon:
View attachment 8072

Or these two random guys:
View attachment 8075

And we even have website selling brand new Giuliettis!

View attachment 8073

Acordeon 120 Baixos Giulietti Classic 127 NOVA

ACORDEON 120 BAIXOS GIULIETTI CLASSIC 127 D. RESSONÂNCIA ACORDEON NOVA NO PLÁSTICO Onze registros no teclado, desmanche lateral e sete nos baixos Obs; Consigo fazer por 48.900,00 e frete grátis para todo Brasil Entre em contato por favor Belíssimo acordeon italiano fabricado em Maio de 2022 4ª...

www.armazemdoacordeon.com.br

Also in the US we have Petosa selling some really cool models:

New Accordion Inventory

petosa.com

View attachment 8076

However, if you search anywhere here in Europe, you will find one or two secondhand models being sold for over 8000 EURs. I've searched mostly in Portuguese, English, German, Italian and Spanish. I could not find anything like the American petosa website.

Is it the case that Giulietties are not so great for European music? or is it just a matter of taste?

Thanks

 

[Dingo40]

Is it the case that Giulietties are not so great for European music? or is it just a matter of taste?

Perhaps I misunderstood but, of course (other than Arabic music requiring microtonal tuning) you can play anything on any standard accordion PA or BCA.
I myself have a late 60s Giulietti. It is
extremely well made and hasn't had any issues in the 40+ years I've had it.
I got it used and I love the tuning.
It's a 41/140 (yes, 140), 3/4, made by Zero Sette , going by what's been said here.)
They are/have been popular in the Balkans: mine is a Balkans friendly model, having a row of minor thirds counter basses)

 

[Ventura]

Giulietti was an American company that took years to grow,
and 2 generations of direct Family involvement, and while the current Family
has re-established rights over their brand name, they only oversee
the licensing of that name, not the specifications of any models

they sourced accordions from several sources overmany decades, but
ended with a long term agreement with Zero-Sette which
included a "Perk" in that Zero was permitted to market and sell
under the Giulietti brand for limited distribution in Eastern Europe

the terms basically insured that they would never compete for sales,
while in Western Europe Zero marketed their own brand name directly
and had no need to use the Giulietti name in that market

all South American sales were obviously through the USA

Both Giulietti and Zero-Sette went out of business, and closed
their respective factories, but Zero was given a reprieve at the
11th hour and were kept alive by what we can say is a "sister" company
which brought Zero in to their accordion factory (physically) at the time and
allowed them to stay viable. Their relationship has progressed since then..

however, many things were lost in the transfer, including proprietary Accordion Forms
which were specific to certain high-end models of Petosa and Giulietti,
and which is why those older "golden age" carryover models are no longer
produced, or are simply nice, even great quality but merely "look-a-like" versions today

the Giulietti you can buy new has little in common with it's fame building ancestors,
but this is also the case with many other old and famous brand names which
are still produced in limited numbers for fans with deep pockets

if you really want an authentic Giulietti find an old one and get it fixed up by a Professional

 

[neilson]

Perhaps I misunderstood but, of course (other than Arabic music requiring microtonal tuning) you can play anything on any standard accordion PA or BCA.
I myself have a late 60s Giulietti. It is
extremely well made and hasn't had any issues in the 40+ years I've had it.
I got it used and I love the tuning.
It's a 41/140 (yes, 140), 3/4, made by Zero Sette , going by what's been said here.)
They are/have been popular in the Balkans: mine is a Balkans friendly model, having a row of minor thirds counter basses)

Yeah, I'm new to the accordion world, so I am still a bit confused with some the some concepts. For instance, my understanding is that Musette accordions have a peculiar tuning, so that they are better suited to some particular types of genres. So I thought that there could've been something with the brand that would make it more suitable to some regional styles.

Anyway, one thing that I learned here in the forum is that Accordions definitely do not follow the "planned obsolescence" trend (like most stuff we buy these days).
Changing my perspectives...

 

[neilson]

Giulietti was an American company that took years to grow,
and 2 generations of direct Family involvement, and while the current Family
has re-established rights over their brand name, they only oversee
the licensing of that name, not the specifications of any models

they sourced accordions from several sources overmany decades, but
ended with a long term agreement with Zero-Sette which
included a "Perk" in that Zero was permitted to market and sell
under the Giulietti brand for limited distribution in Eastern Europe

the terms basically insured that they would never compete for sales,
while in Western Europe Zero marketed their own brand name directly
and had no need to use the Giulietti name in that market

all South American sales were obviously through the USA

Both Giulietti and Zero-Sette went out of business, and closed
their respective factories, but Zero was given a reprieve at the
11th hour and were kept alive by what we can say is a "sister" company
which brought Zero in to their accordion factory (physically) at the time and
allowed them to stay viable. Their relationship has progressed since then..

however, many things were lost in the transfer, including proprietary Accordion Forms
which were specific to certain high-end models of Petosa and Giulietti,
and which is why those older "golden age" carryover models are no longer
produced, or are simply nice, even great quality but merely "look-a-like" versions today

the Giulietti you can buy new has little in common with it's fame building ancestors,
but this is also the case with many other old and famous brand names which
are still produced in limited numbers for fans with deep pockets

if you really want an authentic Giulietti find an old one and get it fixed up by a Professional

That's a great overview! Thanks for sharing that. It's very interesting to know the story behind and it kind of opens one's eye in regard to the new stuff being built and marketed as originals.

 

[debra]

Giulietti certainly had its followers and enthusiasts in Europe. They were very well made (by Zero Sette) and had a distinctive sound liked by many. However, part of that sound is the result of the signature grille design. That design (a closed grille except for the large oval cutout) was great for cassotto accordions as it made the cassotto sound even more mellow while keeping the brilliant (sharper) sound of the reeds outside the cassotto. For non-cassotto accordions however this design made the white keys sound differently from the black keys, and that's not something you want in an accordion...

 

[Ventura]

cool.. Debra, that is something i did not realize that the grille shape could have that
much affect

perhaps this was deliberate or luck, i do not know, but i HAVE seen other
Gulietti's with interesting and perhaps hand fitted grilles, one being a
fully sealed grille with discreet weep slots around the edges, with interestingly fitted
microphones built inside

perhaps designed for Studio use.. who knows.. it sounds very very mellow indeed
acoustically
one of the guys in the club brings it on occasion, he lucked into it ages ago so
there is no provenance

 

[Ikesaccordions]

Some observations from someone who is but a scavenger: I never had capital or liesure to investigate fancy accordions with fancy designs, so i tried some things not mentioned here yet. I started as a piano student of classical music, with perhaps less talent than determination.
Eventually homeless in a rather backward town, I took up the accordion to play on the streets to make a living.
I learned to repair it the hard way, with no help from anyone. Etc. etc. but now on to the question of sonority.
Single tone chambers: Anyone remember those? IMHO sound better and weigh less than double cassotti instruments.
Once I had an LMMM Scandalli one of the models with the Roman temple design. No cassotto and two palm switches. I experimented with the tone, and eventually put flat newspaper under the grille. Voila an echo chamber!
Then there is the Settimio Soprani "Ampliphonic" reed block, 10 or 11 of those and 6 in the bass. Almost a cassotto sound. Of course you have to put booster springs on the half of leathers that are attracted to the Earth's core. I have seen these made out of paper strips creased and folded into a "D" shape. On this instrument I found that a Bach fugue in C# minor from he WTC sounded like a large cathedral organ.
And then there is a Swiss-made Atlantic IV that hasn't the "window shade" roll-up mute, but instead just ubder the grille a removable wedge-shape resonator, wider over the low reeds, that I could've used to drown out the sax player half a block away who said I was playing "Merry-Go-Round" music. True BTW. All in good fun, doncha know.

 

[John Doe]

...That design (a closed grille except for the large oval cutout) was great for cassotto accordions as it made the cassotto sound even more mellow while keeping the brilliant (sharper) sound of the reeds outside the cassotto. For non-cassotto accordions however this design made the white keys sound differently from the black keys, and that's not something you want in an accordion...

A while back I groused:

"I have a perhaps sixty year old Crown 3/5 41/120 with L/M in the chamber... and all is generally well but that the tone is so laid back that it would make Joe Cocker sound like Perry Como" (It has a grille as described above.) I drilled six 3/8 inch holes in the lower portion of the grille in two triangles of three towards either side (very limited, if any, negative impact aesthetically) and it came out quite nicely (according to my ears and, of course, I'm the one who plays it...).

After reading Mr. DeBras' post I realized that what irked me was the "spotty" nature of the laidback sound- really mellow with occasional bursts of "normalcy", which made the mellow parts sound really dark. What gave me the aha moment was the realization that the issue really only came to the forefront when I was practicing flipping keys (IE tune in C, then Bb, then B, etc) this on the forlorn hope that it will improve my facility in using all 41 keys on the RH side be they black or white.

It serves A: to put me in a bad mood and B: causes minor issues to seem major.

The white keys were indeed very mellow, a lot of the black keys were more apt to sound "normal". Not all that bad when wheezing along per usual, but when accentuated by unusual key signatures AND a foul mood ...

The "pretty minor" venting smoothed this over noticeably though it's still there if one is looking and listening for it. I'm leaving the Crown well enough alone though at this point- it's a lot easier to drill holes than to patch them and I have no interest in playing an accordion that looks like black swiss cheese...

 

[Ikesaccordions]

On many accordions, the white key valves go up more than the black key valves. Then any valve of white key on the black key row that rises e'en less, may have a hollow cut in the pad to let in more air. Or these lifters may be lifted in the middle with a kind of hinged arrangement to make them come up higher. Nobody cares about these anomalies in the sound but you, the player.