French Folk

[Glenn]

I've just bought the "French Folk Tunes for Accordion" book from the Schott series edited by Murray Grainger.
Although I've only just started to look through it I did put the CD into the player to see what Mr Grainger proposes for the tunes.
I don't know if any of you have this book but I am not sure what to think of the performances as they sound somehow rather artificial (as if done electronically).
I now doubt whether I have any idea what type of instrument these songs should be played on.
Does anyone have some good links to how these types of tunes should be played live as I somehow don't trust myself with the CD....

 

[Deleted member 48]

here are some links and info

http://www.cadb.org/pagepratique.htm

http://www.musiquesbretonnes.com/

 

[bocsa]

Most are out there on Y tube plus there are other gems like
http://accordeonaire.blogspot.co.uk/2011/06/la-marianne-with-my-dad.html

along with free dots.... http://abcnotation.com/tunePage?a=trillian.mit.edu/~jc/music/abc/France/waltz/Marianne_G/0000

Although it doesnt seem to have chords notated this looks interesting:
Dansons la Morvandelle by Mike Gilpin available from http://www.mally.com/details.asp?id=93 Dave has it on Ebay with free postage but I phoned him direct and hes sending it post free

 

[artidots]

Many of these are well known tunes Glenn and heard in many French traditional dance clubs here in UK. Looks an interesting book.

In our experience they are played very much on Melodeons (D/G or G/C), as well as on Accordions, Flutes, Whistles, and Recorders, Hurdy Gurdies of course, and Fiddles too, although Fiddles seem to fit rather less well on French tunes than they do on Swedish. The Waltzes are quick, and the Mazurkas slow !

The French website of Melodeon maker Bernard Loffet has lots of soundtracks too. We can also heartily endorse the Mike Gilpin book mentioned above, as well as records and books by Blowzabella. There are many many more of course.

These are great tunes and many are very catchy, to my mind anyway.

Best Wishes.

 

[nathen]

Thanks for this thread Glenn, I've been in touch with Gary Chapin as a teacher for French traditional music on my melodion. That is when I get the buttons figured out! On the pa it's one note, one key. On the diatonic, so many choices, depending on whether your pulling or pushing. Anyway, It's coming: like Christmas, it seems far away. Fortunately I've begun a lot of instruments so I'm not deterred.

Nathen

 

[donn]

These are great tunes and many are very catchy, to my mind anyway.

Would you, or Glenn, care to mention a couple of examples by name?

 

[artidots]

Yes Donn of course.

To name a few. Le Ruban Bleu; Bourree d'Aurore Sand; Schottische a Virmoux; Polka de l'Averyron (sic ? spelt in the book); Marche Nuptiale; Bourree des Grandes Potteries; Valse a Bouffard; La Marianne; Mazurka Limousin.

The Breton Andros come in many different tunes all seemingly called 'Andro', often in minor keys and very addictive, similarly with Hanterdros (and Pach Pis and all the rest).

Hope helpful ? Expect Glenn has some ideas as well.

 

[donn]

Thanks! I went right to youtube for these, and as one would expect given your comment above, found mostly melodeons. I suppose theres nothing wrong with listening to a melodeon rendition, though. For example, Marche Nuptiale.

 

[donn]

... speaking of learning tunes from a melodeon rendition -- in the second measure of the sweetest tune of the lot, La Marianne, to my ear, the bass goes to an E, and my accordion reflex is to make that an Em. But the melodeon chord sounds more like a G6, though more subtly than my G6 - and I sure wish I could get closer that sound, because it's a very appealing characteristic also of music I've heard from Provence. I'm not sure there's an answer for this, maybe there are some characteristic chord voicings, and perhaps tuning, that make this work for melodeons but not accordions so much.

(I'm playing the above in C, by the way.)

 

[artidots]

Donn we normally play that in G, but in C it would look like this:

 

[nathen]

Donn,

'La Marianne' was tune of the month on Melnet. There's a whole thread discussing this tune, with dots and ABC notation in keys G C F. In fact everything you need to know about this lovely tune. There's a nice utube clip of Gary Chapin playing with his dad. His website 'L'accordionaire' is worth visiting.

Nathen

 

[donn]

But did you see my question? I havent gone to melnet yet to verify this - Ive heard of melnet, but thats all - but would they be likely to spend much time on how to produce the same effect on a Stradella bass? Thats the question. I know the nominal chord, to coin a phrase, is Em, I know I can use G6 instead if I like, but we know what that sounds like, and what the melodeons sound like on that measure. Can we get any closer, on a Stradella bass?

my accordion reflex is to make that an Em. But the melodeon chord sounds more like a G6, though more subtly than my G6 - and I sure wish I could get closer that sound, because its a very appealing characteristic also of music Ive heard from Provence.

 

[nathen]

Yes Donn, I did see your question. And yes it is a G6 (aka Em7). I also thought that by browsing melnet you might pick up some other ideas on this tune which you expressed interest in. Its worth a look, some interesting comments. By the way, some diatonic boxes do have stradella basses.

La Marianne, tune of the month January 2011.

http://www.forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,5713.0html

Nathen

 

[Glenn]

Donn,
As an aside, how are you playing the G6?
Are you using G(bass)+Em(chord) ?

 

[donn]

Donn,
As an aside, how are you playing the G6?
Are you using G(bass)+Em(chord) ?

Thats no aside at all, thank you! No, E bass, Gmaj chord. To my ear, it calls for an E bass, with either Emin or Gmaj chord - or nothing. I havent actually started learning the tune, I just thought this chord would serve as a pretty good example of what I think may be a more general issue while playing French melodeon music with a stradella bass. I can hear bass notes, but am no great shakes at picking out the notes in the chord. I suppose the melodeon serves up 2 of the 3 notes you get with the stradella chord, making the chord more ambiguous, and I really like the effect musically. But then again, Im not entirely sure it couldnt be partly about tuning, since a chromatic system has to be tuned differently?

[URL in preceding post works better with 2 Es in melodeon.]

 

[Anyanka]

Donn, re Schottische a Virmoux for Morris - my side used to do a dance called Swan Vesta to that tune.

As for how to play French dance music: the finest example (not just in my opinion) is Blowzabella; several of their albums are available for free listening on Grooveshark.

Alternatively, for more realism, heres a non-professional French band based in the East of England, Bof: https://myspace.com/bofanost/music/songs

I bought a CD of authentic French dance music at an Emmanuel Pariselle & Christian Maes concert, which is basically a live recording of an actual dance event: Le Bal, featuring accordion, melodeon, hurdy gurdy and bagpipe. Not great to listen to for enjoyment, but useful for how-to-play-it. Cant find it online though! PM me if you want me to send you some samples from that.

(edited for geographical errors)

 

[nathen]

The reeds are tuned exactly the same, seeing as they are the same reeds in both instruments. The difference is often in the all-wood construction in many of the melodeons, and size of the box. Smaller because instead of a double set of the same reed (C) that you have in a pa (for pulling the bellows out and pushing them in) in the diatonic you have two reeds (hence the name) in the same space. C for bellows in and D for bellows out.

The diatonic however is not just limited to this action if you have more than a one row box. On my three row I have the choice of playing a D in the same direction as the C. I play the C on the middle row (key of C) pushing in, and continue pushing in and play the D below it on the outside row (key of G). They say that as you get older, more challenges to the brain are helpful in keeping mentally alert. Well, I've certainly got my plate full learning the diatonic!

The beauty of the diatonic is to be able to play notes in the same direction producing a smooth legato, or to punch the note quickly by suddenly changing direction, giving a lively rythym to dances. One of the reasons diatonics are so beloved by trad folk dancers in many countries all over the world.

In changing from a pa to a three row diatonic, it's not just about learning which buttons produce which note, but also whether to pull or push for that note depending on the effect desired or the amount of air left in the bellows. The air button is also an integral part of playing when you run out of air at either end. You have to learn how to breathe the box at just the right time so as not to interupt the melody. Much like a singers who have to choose when to take a breath. Skilled players like Shand could play certain tunes without seeming to hardly move the bellows.

Playing a diatonic certainly has more challenges for someone used to playing a pa, and then switching to a diatonic, because there are more choices available when playing a tune. It can be a bit bewildering sometimes!

An interesting journey for those not faint of heart. For me, one of the main advantages is the weight, 9lbs. Which is a pretty good inducement to play more often. I will at some point get a diatonic with Stradella bass as well.

A bit long winded and off thread, but I wanted to address the question of differences of sound between the pa and diatonic. To recap, they are the same reeds tuned the same way. Depending of course on the choice of wet or dry.

Nathen

 

[donn]

A bit long winded and off thread, but I wanted to address the question of differences of sound between the pa and diatonic. To recap, they are the same reeds tuned the same way.

For something from melnet on this: http://forum.melodeon.net/index.php/topic,6081.msg76976.html#msg76976[/url]

Chords on a Stradella bass are very unlikely to be tuned to anything but ET, because the reeds are shared between different chords. In contrast the chords in diatonic boxes usually each have their own dedicated reeds. This gives the opportunity to tweak the tuning to make the chords sound sweeter. When I tune chords I usually tune the major thirds about half way between ET and just intonation. This does improve the sound of the chords (to my ear anyway). I have seen some Saltarelle boxes which seem to come from the factory with this sort of tuning.

(I suppose ET means equal temperament.)

 

[nathen]

Theo has his own store and is a major accordion repair man. He has the ability to fine tune any box. The Salterelle is a high end box with many subtle differences to regular boxes. My Corona has the same reeds as my Hohner Carmen had, except for the limitation of only six bass chords to choose from.

Congratulations Donn for finally taking a dive into the murky waters of the melodeon.

Nathen

 

[donn]

I spent a few minutes actually playing the tune on my accordion, more or less anyway. Inasmuch as we're talking about La Marianne in C, to my ear, best to simply play G on that second measure, on the counterbass row, and lay off the chord buttons.

For the real question, which is, more generally is there any special trick to getting those odd chord sounds I sometimes (not always) hear in French diatonic accordion music -- my provisional answer is no. There's no trick, it just isn't going to happen, even with assistance from the right hand keyboard, which suggests it isn't just a matter of voicing. So that's easy. Happy to learn more from anyone out there who might have a clue.