• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks

FR-8x and Ketron X4

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
less than 24 hours and already have had a head into the wall banging session... lol

The 8X MIDI structure is so much more complex than my former Elka 83 !!

What I want: Hit the chords, have the Ketron X4 arranger module change chords with me. No biggie there, set the chords to receive on CH3, however, the 8X is somehow controlling the overall volume of the X4 and even pulling hard on the bellows, the X4 is barely audible. What I would want is to either find a way for the X4 to ignore volume control from the 8X or have the 8X not transmit volume controls via the external MIDI cable.

Anyone have a few ideas? I've spent the last 2 hours banging my head against the wall. :))
 

JIM D.

Been here for ages!
Technical Adviser
Site Supporter
Joined
Apr 30, 2013
Messages
4,677
Reaction score
196
Hi Jerry;
At --- http://www.falcettimusic.com/ ---
We give free instruction for new 8x owners. You might contact a dealer in your area for instruction.
 

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
JIM D. said:
Hi Jerry;
At --- http://www.falcettimusic.com/ ---
We give free instruction for new 8x owners. You might contact a dealer in your area for instruction.
I may try that, thank-you Jim. :)

In the meantime... the solution to my issue was: menu 16.4 - Accordion OFF.

Dang, so simple, but not... lol

I am going to need to start taking some heavy notes! My next one (in case someone is interested) is how to stop the Ketrons voices from changing every time I hit a register on the accordion. Back to the books. :)

Jim, the definition of irony... its going to the Roland.CA website, doing a Dealer Locatior based on my postal code and the FIRST place on the list is some place up in Springfield called Falcetti MUsic...I kid you not! :lol: :lol:
 

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Well this morning as I am waiting for my coffee, I had to look back and think. I've learned so much about it in the last 24 hours, a lot more than is possible by reading the manual. Though the manual explains menu items, it doesn't explain concepts (differences between UPG and lists, how to view all sets, how to view all sounds, how to view the settings from a specific expansion set, come to think about it, how to even view all the instruments from a specific expansion set), and THAT is a huge failing. As a matter of fact, I have even yet to find answers to newbie questions, but know how to interfere with the MIDI code to send or not send certain signals... strange path I took to learning.

Tonight I likely will just want to explore the sound capabilities, but as has been my habit in the past, when I find something that I enjoy and start to get a bit deeper in to it, I make in-depth and comprehensive video tutorials for myself once I am comfortable with something, and I may do that with this as well. I then post those online, not just to help me remember, but so that I can perhaps help make someone else's path a bit easier. Because I am a self-admitted techno geek and I am having all kinds of different levels of confusion about this new toy... I cannot even imagine how someone who is less, or even not technical at all be able to grasp more than 5% of what this instrument can do and how to get it doing what you want. Right now, I am the newb and sincerely impressed by each facet of this new toy that I discover.

If nothing else, it makes life interesting... lol
 

artelagro

Well-known member
Site Supporter
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
402
Reaction score
0
Hi Jerry, Your video idea sounds great. You are no stranger to computers yet openly admit when you struggle, so imagine how we, at the bottom of the pile feel.
Will look forward to it
Garth
 

Alan Sharkis

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
312
Reaction score
25
Location
East Meadow, New York, USA
If you can't program the accordion to stop sending continuous volume messages or channel volume messages, you might want to filter them out using an Event Processor or an Event Processor Plus from a company called Midi Solutions. These devices can be programmed to filter just about any midi message. Once programmed, the program stays in non-volatile memory until you decide to change or delete the program. I've used one successfully to filter out volume messages from both my midi accordion and a reedless I no longer own. The devices take their power from the midi line, so no external power is needed.
 

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Thanks Alan, that's a very good idea, however there was an integrated solution in the accordion itself. You really have to see this accordion to begin to understand it's complexities (think 17 main menus then 1-20 sub-menus under that, and then add a crap load of parameters in each sub-menu under that!), I was able to find it and then added a few more challenges to it in the forms of things that I want, but don't want (for example, I want the 8X's internal accordions to be able to understand the dynamic bellows, but I don't what that to be sent out to the X4, or I don't mind so much the velocity sensitive keys, but I want them to be set up in a manner that I don't have to pound the keyboard so hard, stuff like that) . Toss in a full backup and a firmware update and you have just spent the last 10 hours basically playing for about 2 and studying complexities, reading the manual and searching through the menus for the other 8. Now, I *still* need to learn to play the darn thing properly too! :lol:

I thought that because I have a strong technical background that I would be safe... no way! It's kind of like being a person with a Masters degree in Neuroscience and then being asked to do brain surgery... they're close, but it's not directly interchangeable knowledge, and so I am learning continuously on the fly... but I bet that I am learning a lot faster than someone with less computer experience! :ch

And then you get people like Uwe Steger and Greg Volovic who are dissecting the bits and bytes being sent and received from the accordion at the atomic level and though I do understand them, I could not offer a piece of helpful advice to save my life. :)

Seriously, one needs at least a full week to get the basics down, then comes the setup, then start the complexities and advanced options, and if you read a lot and play, play, play, maybe in about 100-200 hours, you would have a good gasp of the instrument. That's when you start on things like creating your own sets and sounds. A person could easily spend a year on those alone if they wanted!

On a slightly down side, the bass buttons are giving me fits. They are SO far apart compared to my other accordions, and even further than the Hohner... so far that I get physical pains from stretching the fingers trying to play the free bass mode for more than 10 minutes, something that NEVER happened on my Morino. OK, so maybe no free bass on this in my near future.
 
A

acordiansam

Guest
Yea the bass button spread took a little getting used to. Almost like going from a accordion keyboard to a paino takes a few minutes to get settled in. The Roland can do so much but it is not user friendly at all. Why they won't let us have the Computer editing program that they use must be to keep a lock on the sounds. I guarantee Roland does not use the little screen to edit their sounds. Out of all the synthesizers I have had since the 70s my 3X has been the biggest pain to program!
 

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
I haven't looked in to that part of things yet at all, however, there is a rumor that the editor for the 4x works with the 8x, and there is that 3rd party editor that KEP provided... have you ever used that one or is that one also a small screen app?
 
A

acordiansam

Guest
No, I did not know there was a 3rd party edit program out there. I wonder if it would work for the 3x? I got so sick and tired of messing with the 3x internal synth sounds, organ, Orc, ecc. That I use out board midi gear for that. Sooo much easer to set up and dial in when layering sounds or using separate sounds for each keyboard bass and chords.
 

kep

Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
39
Reaction score
1
JerryPH said:
OK, so maybe no free bass on this in my near future.
I have never played free bass, but Im trying to learn the French 3 Bass Row system, and its very promising exactly because you dont need to stretch too much. Minor scales fingering is very much the same as the major one, and complex chords are much easier to reach.
 

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
kep said:
I have never played free bass...
Its a very different world. I kind of equate it as being a different tool for a different task. Drop the left hand chords and literally play full piano music, that is what free bass permits. The buttons are so freaking far apart on the 8x (and also way different angles and on completely different sides of the bass keyboard compared to my Hohner), that at least for now, I am not even interested in trying anymore for the time being. Tons of respect to people who play converter instruments... its a lot harder than having those 3 extra rows up top dedicated to free bass notes!
 

Alan Sharkis

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
312
Reaction score
25
Location
East Meadow, New York, USA
JerryPH said:
Thanks Alan, that's a very good idea, however there was an integrated solution in the accordion itself. You really have to see this accordion to begin to understand it's complexities (think 17 main menus then 1-20 sub-menus under that, and then add a crap load of parameters in each sub-menu under that!), I

My accordion teacher is no stranger to tech. He has a Petosa with a great midi controller, a rack full of stuff that he used to take with him on gigs -- until he bought a Roland FR-8x. He says that the Roland is ideal for playing restaurants, and he's been doing a lot of that lately. But after a while, he went to his dealer to learn how to program the instrument.

If you're a PC user with a midi interface on your computer, you might want to look into a free program called Midi OX. It was written back in the Windows XP days, but still runs under Windows 7, 8, 8.1 and 10. (It's usually accompanied by another program called Midi Yoke, a virtual cable program that you may or may not need.) But Midi OX is like a midi monitor on steroids. In fact, it's the program that got many puzzles solved for me, including the one that led me to seek out the Midi Solutions Event Processor. With that program and a list of all the midi messages and their functions, you can do a lot.

Take care.

Alan
 

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
2,973
Reaction score
58
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Yes, I have a MIDI in-out on the computer (as well as a 16-channel firewire mixer) that all connects to Reaper that can talk to the analog, firewire and Midi in/outs all at the same time. The MIDI world is very interesting and one can easily get lost in it, but I have to try to draw a line between it and what I want from my accordion now.

I was just about to start playing with Kontact and a slew of virtual instruments before I picked up the 8x, now that will wait until I get the Roland side under control. I don't have much time to learn it, because I perform with it for the first time on December 10th, so I am a bit concerned that I won't have the time to prepare as much as I would really want to.

So much to do, so little time. Off to the play room to get a bit more one-on-one with the 8x. :)
 
Similar threads

Similar threads

Top