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Exit strategy

jozz

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In the Netherlands, as of next week (June 1st) lockdown rules will be opened up a bit.

Social distancing still is mandatory but bars, restaurants and the like may open up again for limited visitor numbers.

Also theaters and concert halls are opening up again, still unsure if opening is worth it under these rules. We aim for band rehearsal June 2nd at a place where 1.5 metres personal distance can be guaranteed. Then June 26th should be our first show since the outbreak. 

How is everybody moving forward from this? How are you feeling?

Myself I'm somewhat confused. It should be a celebration, as we can pperform again. But it feels like an experiment. It won't be the same as before I guess.
 

debra

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The problem with the new Dutch rule is that concerts must not have an audience of more than 30 people, independent of the size of the concert location. This is ridiculous. A small venue that can host no more than 100 people can accommodate a concert with an audience of 30 but a concert hall with a capacity of 1000 or more cannot work with 30 people. Similar ridiculous measures have been taken for bars and restaurants. A small intimate restaurant can be completely full, considering the required distance, when there are 30 customers inside, but a large restaurant with a capacity of several hundred people just cannot survive with this maximum of 30. Clearly the people in charge of determining the rules do not understand concepts like "ratio" or "percentage"...
I play in two quintets and we can perform for 30 people and know a few small venues suitable for that, but I also play in two accordion orchestras that require a large stage (especially considering distance between the players) and a suitable concert location will just look completely empty when there are 30 people in the audience.
Sadly some other countries have similar rules, ignoring concepts like capacity and percentage...
 

Dingo40

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Jozz,
We've been very lucky here, so far!
Currently, we have no cases of COVID19 active or not.

So, like you, our Government is very gradually relaxing the restrictions.

However, once the restrictions are off, it's quite feasible we could have another outbreak or spike!

What then?

Seems to me, this will continue to be the likelihood until an effective vaccine arises and a very significant proportion of the populace is vaccinated ( like for the 'flu !).

In the meantime, we'll all be in limbo and simply have to continue to watch our step and avoid trouble! 

:-/

Being one of the high risk group, I plan to do just that! :)
 

Corinto

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debra said:
Similar ridiculous measures have been taken for bars and restaurants.

Ridiculous measures all over the world ... here in Spain, depending on which party rules the local government (friend or foe of national government) the allowed measures change a lot ... unbelievable ...

Have been re-reading Albert Camus' "La Peste" this week, and in 70 years some things in the world almost haven't changed ... :(
 

Stephen Hawkins

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Nothing like this has ever happened before during my lifetime, so it is my firm intention to avoid close contact in public places. It doesn't matter much to me what the government says about easing the lock-down regulations, because Brenda & I will stay holed-up until we decide that it is safe to mix with others.

There may well exist financial imperatives for easing restrictions, but those considerations cannot be allowed to dictate government policy. The first duty of any government is the protection of its citizens ....... nothing else is more important or fundamental.

As many here will know, we go out almost every day. We are careful about where we go, choosing places where we can avoid unnecessary contact with others. Whether or not restrictions on hotels and travel are lifted, we have already decided for ourselves that it is a risk we are not prepared to take.

Younger people may have an entirely different perspective on these matters, and I accept that they may crave excitement but, for those of us in the "vulnerable" category, health and well being is uppermost in our minds.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
 

Eddy Yates

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Jozz, thanks for asking. The flood of information and disinformation makes choices difficult, if one actually thinks. For me, it’s easy. There is no vaccine for what medical authorities say is one of the most contagious outbreaks in our history, and I rely on their knowledge, not that of politicians or business people. It affects young and old with an ever-increasing plethora of serious symptoms and effects. I’m convinced we’re in for a long haul until a vaccine is widely available. I wear a mask when I go out, but I avoid crowds. I may participate in some of the 30-person concerts this summer, but I’m working hard on my other sources of income.
If we’re lucky, life will change. We need a reset because most of the developed world, led by some crazed idea that constant growth is not an unbridled cancer destroying us, has blindly gone down the path of moremoremore.
I think one of the appeals of traditional accordions is that they are an old and relatively gentle technology, best enjoyed in smaller settings.
I think I can say these things on this forum and be safe, whereas in other social media I’d be attacked by a small, annoying, loud mouthed army of internet trolls.
Peace.
 

hais1273

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Eddy
I agree with you, we need to change our ways. I hope things will improve, but, well who knows. when I was a teenager in the 1970's two films made a huge impression on me, the first was " The Shadow of Progress" all about the various forms of pollution, even as long ago as the  early 70's some scientists were concerned about plastics. We've tinkered around the edges in dealing with pollution, but we continue to S%^t in the bed.  The other was Walkabout with Jenny Agutter, we studied the book at school, but the film was a bit of a revelation in as much as showed how little we really need to get by on, and that maybe all the stuff we have ( and want to have) isn't necessary  (Saint Jenifer swimming about without a stitch on may have had some impact on my teenage imagination though ) Since then, I've believed we all want too much stuff, trouble is it's so easy to get sucked into the more/bigger/better mind set.  
Until recently we were using a small second hand flat screen TV, it eventually died last autumn, a little while earlier some friend's had been rather rude about it's size, they had just bought a larger/brighter/noisier TV. " Why's that, has the old one died?" says I. After a pause our chum said " Er, no we bought it because or mate Dickie has a new enormous one" oh well...    

I'm sure you can be reasonably controversial here if you want, I don't think there are any trolls lurking here, are there?
 

Tom

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I probably won't be doing my volunteer gigs any time soon. Luckily I don't depend on income from my playing, and I have sympathy for those of you who do, and wish you well. Covid cases vary greatly here by city. I would like to try some outside playing with lots of space this summer, we'll see. Good luck everyone, and stay safe!
 

Paul vdV

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This was also in the Netherlands.

Played my first gig in weeks last Saturday. Outside a home for elderly people, the lady celebrated her 96th birthday. We were hired by her daughter to play for half an hour. We played for over an hour. We were on the street (1 1/2 m apart), she was also outside in her little streetside garden. Around twenty family members all keeping social distance in the street. More additional public on the balconies and open windows. There was some dancing, singing along. Ofcourse we played a repertoire taylored for the age group.

A special occasion, in many respects! Love playing for people ...
 

Stephen Hawkins

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Hi Eddy, et al.

I pursued my profession goals with zeal and diligence, but money was never a motivating factor. The detached house and big car did come my way, but I never lost sight of what I did it all for.

However twee this may sound, my motivation was always to protect society from harm. My Victorian Grandparents were massively influential in my upbringing, and I owe them a great debt of gratitude for their highly principled and loving contribution to my life.

Even today, almost forty years since they died, I still approach difficulties by asking myself how they would deal with the situation facing me. And do you know what? It still works.

We certainly do need to change our ways ..... there is no denying that. But who do we listen to? Who has the answer to what ails the World? I can tell you that it isn't me, but I can also tell you that it isn't the people who currently wield power.

This forum does not allow political debate, nor should it. Unless, that is, that the moderators were persuaded to open a thread which allowed such discourse. I doubt that this will ever happen, and can understand the reasons why, but I have no objection to members sending me PM's relating to this subject.

I was the co-founder and editor of a political forum for some years, so am well used to "lively" and controversial debate. So, it is sometimes difficult for me to avoid talking about politics, as it pervades every aspect of our lives, though I have managed very well so far.

Like a number of our members, I played in a few "old folks homes." For the foreseeable future, this gentle pastime is over. Similarly, I can no longer play in the folk clubs we used to frequent, and I see no end to this situation.

Please ..... Everybody Stay Safe.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
 

jozz

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The one light at the end of the tunnel I see is upscaled and cheap test capacity. So technically it would then become possible to create a 'clean' playing venue with 'clean' attendants.

Only thing is that the entertainment industry is probably the last that will be allowed to open up more. Unless a vaccin appears in time.

We'll see how it goes next week. We have all of these areas popping up where everything is placed apart but you get table service. Most of them work with reservation systems or even intake appointments to 'clear' you and your party.

Maybe we will simply adapt and have fun after no matter what.
 

Stephen Hawkins

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Hi Jozz,

Testing may well prove to be a useful tool in the fight against this dreadful virus, but it cannot yet establish whether or not an "A Symtomatic" person is carrying the virus.

Similarly, a vaccine, though very welcome, will not prevent the vaccinated person from carrying or spreading the virus in the short term to those not yet vaccinated.

It now seems, at least in the UK, that the government's medical advisors are slightly at odds with the politicians over the advice being broadcast on TV & Radio. Given this divergent thinking, it becomes a question of "who do we trust?"

The issue of trust is a matter for the individual, but my money is on the medical professionals who have no axe to grind.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
 
M

maugein96

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Stephen Hawkins said:
Hi Jozz,

Testing may well prove to be a useful tool in the fight against this dreadful virus, but it cannot yet establish whether or not an "A Symtomatic"  person is carrying the virus.  

Similarly, a vaccine, though very welcome, will not prevent the vaccinated person from carrying or spreading the virus in the short term to those not yet vaccinated.

It now seems, at least in the UK, that the government's medical advisors are slightly at odds with the politicians over the advice being broadcast on TV & Radio.  Given this divergent thinking, it becomes a question of "who do we trust?"  

The issue of trust is a matter for the individual, but my money is on the medical professionals who have no axe to grind.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.


Stephen,

My money is on just about everybody catching it sooner or later, just like the common cold. At least a dozen of our friends, as well as ourselves, believe we've already had it. Symptoms varied among us, but as none of us was hospitalised then we don't know what we had. Most of us had Flu vaccinations in October 2019, so theoretically we can write flu out of the script. 

Most European countries appear to have passed the peak of the pandemic, and I would imagine that the risk factor now needs to be reassessed. It appears that Covid19 is with us indefinitely, the same as the common cold. That being the case we're going to have to learn to cope with it. With the best of respect to the scientists and medical specialists, no amount of theorising is going to make it go away. 

Different countries have different theories on how to plan for the future, and the global financial situation will have a major impact on what happens next, and where it happens. 

Here in the UK the general attitude now appears to be that the public has done all it can to minimise the spread of infection, and it's time to open the cages for people to take any precautions of their own volition, or not, as the case may be. 

The UK currently has the third highest death toll per capita in the world, despite all and any of the lockdown measures that have been implemented. Belgium is currently at the top of that macabre league, followed by Spain, whose toll is only marginally worse than ours. Sweden never implemented any lockdown measures, and they only topped the league for a single week. They are now in sixth place. 

Is lockdown working? I think it depends on whereabouts in the world you are, and whether you have wall to wall people, like a large part of the UK has. 

My own philosophy is that we just need to pick up the pieces and get on with things. Social distancing is impossible if just 1% of the population choose to ignore it. I'd hate to be a doorman at a venue where 31 inebriated people turn up and all demand entry. Next week in the UK we can meet 6 people in our gardens, providing we all stay 2 metres apart. What if it rains, or somebody chokes on their barbecue burger? If I go to my local supermarket I'll pass within inches of at least 60 people walking in the "wrong" direction, but that's OK, as I might be walking in the wrong direction at times myself, if I forget something in the previous aisle. 

Please let us bin all those senseless mathematical calculations and let's just use common sense.
 

Dingo40

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Hi guys!

This "exit " strategy business reminds me of an experience from my childhood ( during WW2).

We were billeted in a house adjoining a railway  station, where two ammunition trains were waiting in a siding not far from our house, when the air-raid sirens sounded the alarm announcing an imminent attack.

Some 20 of us squeezed inside the backyard shelter intended for ten, and surrendered to fate.

In due course we underwent a severe raid, during which both ammunition trains blew up, sweeping all the protecting heap of dirt from the roof of our shelter.

After the all-clear, having waited a decent interval just to be sure (and pressured by calls of nature), we very gingerly made our exit. But, no sooner had we managed a few paces, when some exploding small arms ammunition, set off by the ensuing fire, sent us all scurrying back inside the shelter, where we all stayed for the next hour : calls of nature notwithstanding! :p

This very much sums up my feelings about  this current pandemic situation! :-/
 

Stephen Hawkins

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John,

I don't honestly think that we will be able to simply pick up where we left off. Human beings have a wonderful capacity for adapting to new conditions, and the sooner we all realise that we need to adapt, the better things will be.

Dingo,

I have been around a lot of exploding munitions, and the "head down" approach is definitely the most sensible one. The danger of contracting Covid-19 may diminish over time, but it is too early to discard our tin hats just yet.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
 

Dingo40

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Stephen,
Our local experience has been that of having tourists and travelers constantly being the source of our infection.
Once travel restrictions are lifted, I fear we could soon be back where we started! :-/
 

Stephen Hawkins

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Hi Dingo,

Call me an old sceptic if you like, but the opinion of one doctor isn't quite enough for me.

RMS Titanic complied with all of the Board of Transport regulations at the time of her launch, and was said to be "unsinkable." History teaches us that was not, in fact, the case.

I hope that I am wrong and the doctor is right, but "whoops, we got that wrong" may come too late for some vulnerable people.

Keep Safe,

Stephen.
 
M

maugein96

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Dingo40 said:
Hi guys!

This "exit " strategy business reminds me of an experience from my childhood ( during WW2).

We were billeted in a house adjoining a railway  station, where two ammunition trains were waiting in a siding not far from our house, when the air-raid sirens sounded the alarm announcing an imminent attack.

Some 20 of us squeezed inside the backyard shelter intended for ten, and surrendered to fate.

In due course we underwent a severe raid, during which both ammunition trains blew up, sweeping all the protecting heap of dirt from the roof of our shelter.

After the all-clear, having waited a decent interval just to be sure (and pressured by calls of nature), we very gingerly made our exit. But, no sooner had we managed a few paces, when some exploding small arms ammunition, set off by the ensuing fire, sent us all scurrying back inside the shelter, where we all stayed for the next hour : calls of nature notwithstanding! :p

This very much sums up my feelings about  this current pandemic situation! :-/

Dingo,

I wasn't born until 1953, but the war was still a big topic of conversation among the older generations. 

I was in Arctic Norway during the so called "Cold War" in 1975/76 and we were making up 2" rockets for the helicopters to use as target practice. We were all fully armed and reckoned we represented a fearsome sight. I was having trouble putting the warhead on one of the rockets when I became aware of a tiny snow boot kicking me on the leg. I turned round and there were two Norwegian kids of about 4 or 5 enquiring as to whether we were Norwegians or "The enemy". One kid had to be discouraged from nonchalantly bashing the ends of the assembled primed rockets with his plastic sledge.  

In theory the rockets required a force greater than a Norwegian childrens' sledge to detonate, but you just never know. The kids had sledged and skied down a very steep snow bank behind us and had "ambushed" us. Our "reward" for returning them to the safety of their grandparents in a farm two miles away was cake and coffee, followed by local Squadron punishment for having allowed the situation to happen in the first place. One week of nights guarding the helicopters in -30c was a reminder that the human race is prone to error on a major scale. 

My point is, with the best will in the world, even with planning done by "experts" you cannot cover every eventuality. The people who had drawn up the plans for the ammunition dump we were using hadn't reckoned on a pair of Norwegian kids, who knew the local area like the backs of their hands, and who were wizards on skis and sleds. For the record, they arrived back at the farm at least 5 minutes ahead of us on our big 210cm NATO "plank" cross country skis, but the coffee and cakes were excellent, and no Arctic Warfare experts had planned on us getting those.


Stephen Hawkins said:
John,

I don't honestly think that we will be able to simply pick up where we left off.  Human beings have a wonderful capacity for adapting to new conditions, and the sooner we all realise that we need to adapt, the better things will be.  

Dingo,

I have been around a lot of exploding munitions, and the "head down" approach is definitely the most sensible one.  The danger of contracting Covid-19 may diminish over time, but it is too early to discard our tin hats just yet.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

Stephen,

You're dead right about adapting to new conditions. Once the budget flights are restored to planet Zorg, that's where I'm going! The medical experts tell us humans can only survive there for a maximum of a week, but they also say the experience of being there is out of this world! 

If you follow the world media, one day we're pulling through and the next we're all doomed. If the advice of the so called "experts" is to be accepted as correct, why don't they all agree with each other? 

A lady in a local supermarket yesterday, obviously obsessed by the need to social distance, quickly pulled her shopping trolley out of the path of an elderly gent who was having trouble finding what he was looking for. Unfortunately the trolley tipped over a display of tins of jam and guess what happened? Just about everybody in adjacent parts of the supermarket zoned in on the incident, to see if they could help. 

I think I'd prefer to make my own mind up, and just hope that I don't get run over by a bus while I'm working out how far I am away from the nearest person to me in the street.
 

Dingo40

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John,
You've made some good points through a couple of great anecdotes: great posting!

Thanks! :)
 
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