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Encouraging progress

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Daveg4otu

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This may help others who are struggling to get the basics in hand (pun intended)....

I started off 6 months ago using (on left hand) 2/3 fingering but switched about 2 months ago to 3/4 because..1)People on the now defunct forum said it was better ....and 2) It obviously was better if I ever wanted to do more than just 3 chord tricks without a struggle.

However , the first few weeks after changing was like dancing with two left feet (I do) or trying to play the guitar lefthanded(I dont).
Slowly my fingers started to unravel and now , suddenly , its working!

So for any others who are struggling...keep at it , itll work eventually.


I know this may seem like a small thing to those who have years of experience under their belts - but to me its like reaching the top of a small hill(yes I know there are more to come).
 
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simonking

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Glad you're progressing fast. When I started playing, I couldn't find much information or opinions about this sort of thing but managed to work out that the more fingers you are able to use, the better.

A really great excercise is to try playing scales in the bass (esp. minor scales where any choice of fingering with involve the 5th finger too). Trust me, you'll probably be all over the place wondering why you're bothering at first, but like the last effort, it will suddenly click and after a while and you'll be breezing through them lightning-fast.
 
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Daveg4otu

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Yes , well one thing at a time!

Actually have started poking at the bass buttons for "runs" ...like from C up to F or down to G...seems much easier with 34 in use than 23.
 

donn

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Does it help with the bass minor 3rd? Like, say you're playing Cm in the usual way, and you want to take the bass to the 3rd, you have to reach over to the Eb. I was watching a more accomplished player last weekend, and she did it quite often, using her little finger. (Of course it's an issue only for the majority with 2/4 stradella layout, the extra bass row on 3/3 serves this purpose.)
 
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simonking

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Yes, it's the easiest way to do it really e.g. for Cm 3 on C, 2 for the Cmin chord and 5 for the Eb, then 3 for the G if you want to play that too. You'll notice this deviates from the "4-3" fingering. But that's my point - there aren't really different systems or methods at all - it's just best to be able use all your available fingers (minus the thumb) so you can choose.
 

donn

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simonking said:
Youll notice this deviates from the 4-3 fingering.

Yes, thank you, I probably would have noticed that! I cant tell if youre serious. Unfortunately Im chronically unable to remember the details of these techniques, which doesnt help. It looks like youre saying 4-3 is ideal for playing that minor 3rd bass note with your little finger, as long as you switch to 3-2 in order to do it ... ha ha! Sorry to ruin the joke by explaining it.
 

Glenn

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I would use 5-2 for this stretch. I find it difficult but you have to plan ahead for these combinations.
Fortunately I have a 3/3 bass in my BB so don't have to worry about it so much anymore.
 

Soulsaver

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I play 3/2 and when I try 4/3 everything feels uncomfortable - like my 3 finger is too long for that and feels scrunched up & too tight, partic if playing alternating bass 432. Is this what you felt but you feel it now feels natural? Or have I got fatter fingers as well as a long 3 that make it feel unnatural?
 
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simonking

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Yes, even using the 5th too finger will feel easy and perfectly normal after a bit of practice. Definitely try playing some scales - start now!

I don't understand why there is this 'fear' for beginning accordionists of using the 4th and 5th left hand fingers. Imagine someone starting the piano and their teacher told them to only use two of their fingers for several months. You'll be making work for yourself later by sticking to what feels easy at first, and playing bass melodies and combining chords will be very difficult or impossible using only the two strongest fingers. And you could be stuck with oom pah alternating bass forever. Eurghhhh!
 

Glenn

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It is true though, with most teaching methods the 5th finger only appears in the third book.
Also, scales can be played without the 5th finger quite comfortably. However, when the situation required it you should not shy away from using the 5th.

Now I ask myself, how many of you use your thumb on the bass side?
 

BobM

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One of the ways to push things along is by trying to copy/play pre-existing bass parts, from accordion music or elsewhere, get as close to the original as you can.
 

jarvo

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simonking wrote:

And you could be stuck with oom pah alternating bass forever. Eurghhhh!


Your point is ?hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? {} :ugeek: :mrgreen:
 

Matt Butcher

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On free bass, occasionally (I have got the low notes near my face on the left hand side), so sometimes you get a real low note on the outer row and some higher notes in a bass line, then using the thumb can give you extra reach, though it hasn't come up a lot so far. So for that reason, I don't see any reason why it couldn't work on stradella, never tried it myself (never played a lot of diminished chords to be honest), but I would have no feel for whether this would be useful a lot.
 

Soulsaver

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simonking said:
Yes, even using the 5th too finger will feel easy and perfectly normal after a bit of practice. Definitely try playing some scales - start now!

I dont understand why there is this fear for beginning accordionists of using the 4th and 5th left hand fingers. Imagine someone starting the piano and their teacher told them to only use two of their fingers for several months. Youll be making work for yourself later by sticking to what feels easy at first, and playing bass melodies and combining chords will be very difficult or impossible using only the two strongest fingers. And you could be stuck with oom pah alternating bass forever. Eurghhhh!
I use 4th as required, I dont stick rigidly to 3/2 but that is my usual/natural. I shy away from pinky cos I broke it as a kid and its weak at the tip and is slightly bent. I find I can easily get by, although I may try working on strengthening it if/when I think it would pay dividends.
I do use two fingers <S>to</S>for my teacher... :)
 

donn

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simonking said:
I dont understand why there is this fear for beginning accordionists of using the 4th and 5th left hand fingers. Imagine someone starting the piano and their teacher told them to only use two of their fingers for several months. Youll be making work for yourself later by sticking to what feels easy at first, and playing bass melodies and combining chords will be very difficult or impossible using only the two strongest fingers. And you could be stuck with oom pah alternating bass forever. Eurghhhh!

Not to further inflame the fervor of the fourth finger fanatics, but ... Ill take the why this fear bait. I feel quite sure that 3-2 doesnt doom one to playing oom pah alternating bass, and I think the piano analogy is a little suspect.

To the extent that theres anything piano-like about the stradella bass, where wed be encouraged to play scales and generally develop that kind of facility, its on the 2 or 3 bass rows.

Its a fact that our 4th and 5th fingers are weaker, have a smaller reach and are less adept at independent movement. They can develop with exercise, but so can the 2nd and 3rd - barring injury, theyll always be better fingers.

I want strong, long reaching fingers up there on the bass buttons, because I want the most robust bass sound possible. I dont want my two best fingers getting in each others way looking for something to do in the chord rows. My situation isnt typical, because I have only 3 chord rows, and 3 bass rows, so the balance is tipped more in favor of 3-2 anyway. And my fingers are relatively long and flexible, maybe others would notice difficulties getting to the chords with an index finger - I dont.

So my positions on this are 1) for me - Im sticking with 3-2, and 2) in general, if you are learning or intend to learn a more detailed technique that teaches you what to do with your fingers, then you should obviously follow the bass-chord split prescribed by that technique, whether its 4-3 or 3-2; but if youre going to just muddle along on your own, both have worked fine for many excellent players.
 

jarvo

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look how Django played guitar with just two fully functioning fingers on his left hand......he made the most amazing runs....his other two were badly injured in a fire and I believe that he had some limited use......he also played Gypsy Jazz ....those guys kicked out all the rules.......qu'est que c'est un scale ? Just play it till it sounds right ! :lol:


And tp paraphrase a banjo saying...."it's your ackordeen....play it how you want......" {}






There's probably caveats somewhere in those two pieces of enlightenment ............but I can't be bothered to go and look for them :ugeek: :geek:
 
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Daveg4otu

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I think the " fear" is much the same as that encountered when learning the guitar - there are chords that require all four fingers yet many never learn to use their 5th digit.....consequently , if they try it feels awkward.
 

jarvo

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Daveg4otu said:
I think the fear is much the same as that encountered when learning the guitar - there are chords that require all four fingers yet many never learn to use their 5th digit.....consequently , if they try it feels awkward.




...and some fret with their thumb ! Stevie Ray Vaughan for definite....and it works ! :tup: ......but hey this is an {} Ackordeen,Accordion,Box,Cordie Forum so nough of that ! :roll: {} {}
 
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simonking

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Hey, it wasn't 'bait' at all. I was just wondering why so many improvers seem to be happy sticking with the eventually more difficult option of ignoring half of their fingers! Especially since so many poeple come to the accordion having been proficient on another instrument requiring dexterity such as piano or guitar.

Simon.
 
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