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E. Soprani

CJ1942

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Hello again are e Soprani accordions made in or finished in Italy and are they good.CJ
 

Scuromondo

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According to the Pasco Italia / E Soprani website, their accordions are “finished” in Italy. It’s anyone’s guess as to what exactly that means, but speculation here (on another thread) is that they are likely built elsewhere, presumably China. I don’t think anyone here has yet reported any firsthand experience with them. Based on their pricing (and my limited experience with new Chinese built accordions in that price range) I would say that if your budget is limited to that range, you would likely get much better performance for your money by finding a used Italian-made instrument in good shape from a reputable source. But it might take a while to find what suits you, and you will have to be willing to commit some time and effort to the search
 

debra

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Hello again are e Soprani accordions made in or finished in Italy and are they good.CJ
AFAIK currently (maybe not in the past) at least all "lower end" E.Soprani accordions are made in China and then "quality checked" in Italy. I do not believe "finished" means anything other than that they check that everything is working as it should. The meaning could be similar to the "Made in Germany" stamp found on Hohner Morino N and S series accordions that were made by Excelsior in Italy...
 

dunlustin

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Most boxes labelled 'Soprani' and not P or Paolo are riding on the P Soprani brand reputation - one of the first major makers in Italy.
This is not new - 50 years ago you could get a 'v Soprani' for half the price of a 'P Soprani.'
I don't know about the 'e' variant.
In the UK, Black Diamond Accordions although made in China are said to be a decent instrument at a reasonable price.
See their site - I have no connection.
 

CJ1942

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Thank you again for all the advice l have received from forum members it is a great feeling to have so many kindred spirits. CJ
 

JIM D.

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I'm afraid I can in no way recommend any accordion that has it's origin in China. That "Finished In Italy" is nothing but a sales
ploy. Best to find your self a used Italian make from a reliable dealer. A decent Italian or German make will "wear in" in time
but all that China junk out there will start wearing out with the first note played on them.
 

godgi

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I think we in the west need to wake up and smell the coffee as to whats happening in China.
Sorry its a political point we need to make sure western business survive and not taken over by Chinese government supported entities. As we know in that country freedom is limited and they have been making threating remarks to the west. I recently retired from the communications industry and the Chinese competitors stole the patents ( from a well known American multinational radio communications company )on digital audio circuitry in portable radio devices. They were ultimately fined 750,000 dollars. They are still fighting it in the courts.
This is all public knowledge not fake NEWS. Lets call a spade a spade.
Godgie
 

Valski

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I think we in the west need to wake up and smell the coffee as to whats happening in China.
Sorry its a political point we need to make sure western business survive and not taken over by Chinese government supported entities. As we know in that country freedom is limited and they have been making threating remarks to the west. I recently retired from the communications industry and the Chinese competitors stole the patents ( from a well known American multinational radio communications company )on digital audio circuitry in portable radio devices. They were ultimately fined 750,000 dollars. They are still fighting it in the courts.
This is all public knowledge not fake NEWS. Lets call a spade a spade.
Godgie
Yes I agree that it is a shame that more and more things are manufactured in China however I think that a lot of the blame belongs to the "western owners " who happily move their production to China and then spend considerable effort disguising how this happened. Yes, also the Chinese manufacturers are extremely aggressive and predatory but in most cases the production was moved voluntarily.

That said, we have to remember that the market for accordions is very limited in the west and it's very difficult to maintain production of complex and expensive instruments. The accordion is popular in China so it's understandable that they would have a lot of capacity and these "western " companies try to make use of these economies of scale.
 

debra

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Someone once built a whole philosophy on the idea that nothing is as constant as change.
The world is a changing place: we need to live with it!🙂
Very true! People tend to forget about the past all too quickly. Soon after WWII the Japanese started making lots of products, most of which were considered junk. But they learned quickly and not too long after they became dominant in things like consumer electronics, high end audio and photography...
The Chinese are in accordion making where the Japanese were shortly after WWII and I fully expect them to start making better and better instruments. This is in fact already happening. They already progressed from absolute rubbish to more or less playable accordions, and when they start producing better steel, enabling the production of better reeds and springs that don't break all too soon... we could be in for a shock in how at least the lower end of the whole accordion market will be taken over completely by the Chinese.
 

JIM D.

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Yes it's quite true that post war Japan initially exported inferior goods, but since it was a post war capitalistic democratic government
that allowed individuals to profit from their innovations & inventions. The result is the fine products we see today.

Now as for China, for those if that are not aware IT'S A COMMUNIST STATE the individuals there are just a part of the herd that
receive wages determined by bureaucrats. To most Chinese any effort to create innovations or inventions has no reward as any
profits derived only goes to the state. I'm afraid we will in the future continue to see the same quality garbage China exports today.
As a young gent I always remember advice given to me by my elders, it's an old quote "IN THIS WORLD YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR".
 

Alan Sharkis

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Seems to me we rode this carousel before. I have a suggestion, but I doubt anyone would take it up.

In the latter half of the nineteenth century, England was producing free-reed instruments. Likewise, in the early part of the twentieth century, accordions were being produced, mostly on the West Coast, but in other locations as well, in the United States. So, both countries have a history of making accordions, and both countries now decry the loss of manufacturing to China. Accordion manufacturing would be considered small potatoes compared to,say, steel, but it would be a start. What are the chances?
 

Dingo40

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Alan,
"What are the chances?"

The problem is, by now, the entire body of skilled artisans has died out and would need to be replaced .
Also, unless protected by tarriffs, they would be undersold by cheap imports.
All this was foreseeable: so much for the
"global economy "!😐
The "con" in economy should have been a clue! 😄
 
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debra

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...
As a young gent I always remember advice given to me by my elders, it's an old quote "IN THIS WORLD YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR".
Sadly I have to disagree with "In this world you get what you pay for" because in our (capitalist) economy manufacturers/sellers maximize their profits by aiming for giving you as little as possible for what you pay. It is a constant consumer struggle to try to get what you pay for.
It is true that in our economy people do get rewarded for for innovations (unlike in China), but here too it's the companies/employers that make the most profit of the inventions made by their employees.
Throughout the evolution of the "western" accordion industry I have seen a move from trying to make the very best possible (like early 1960's Bell, Scandalli Super VI, Hohner Gola) to trying to cut corners wherever possible to make the production of accordions less expensive while raising prices much faster than general inflation. When Hohner moved the production of their lower end instruments from Europe to China they cut costs by a lot, yet the newer Hohner instruments did not become less expensive than before. It's all a game of maximising profit and giving the customer as little as possible for that the customer pays.
The E.Soprani case is similar to the Hohner case: a company using the good (European) reputation that's in their name to sell inferior products to unknowing consumers, at maximum profit. Our capitalist world is in a sad state, not necessarily much better than the sad state China is in, just different.
 

dunlustin

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I have been trying to express the thoughts put forward by Paul - and now no need.
Just an add-on:
Buy an instrument in the UK 18 months ago - 1-2 years protection and the retailers responsibility.
Buy an instrument now - the right to return within 30 days and then the buyer has to prove it's not their fault and dispute is with the manufacturer.
China's commercial practice may be dodgy but there's no point in claiming everything is garbage when they have their own space station and we are content to let them buy up heritage brands like MG and hi-tech chip manufacturers while governments tries to limit influence by banning Huawei. They are even financing UK's only new nuclear plant.
Be concerned but let's not bury our heads in the sand.
And maybe they will build some nice accordions rather than taking over other plants - after all Cava have (had?) a student model built in the Far East.
To be clear: this is a consumer issue not a political one.
 

Scuromondo

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Traditionally, private companies put their effort into two places: satisfying both their customers as well as their employees.

Now, “public” companies must also satisfy their shareholders. And, based on my experience working for public companies, it seems to me that most (not all) prioritize shareholders over both customers and employees—in other words, their primary objective is to drive their stock price higher to satisfy investors, NOT to manufacture the best product for customers or to provide an environment to cultivate and reward the best employees.
 
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oldbayan

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I know people who play a Parrot and are happy with it. Others play a $20,000 Pigini and dream of a "better" one. Everything is relative, Einstein demonstrated that a while ago. 😎
 

Alan Sharkis

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Alan,
"What are the chances?"

The problem is, by now, the entire body of skilled artisans has died out and would need to be replaced .
Also, unless protected by tarriffs, they would be undersold by cheap imports.
All this was foreseeable: so much for the
"global economy "!😐
The "con" in economy should have been a clue! 😄
I agree with most of what you said. The part i disagree with is that there are still artisans around. Some of them work in factories, and getting them to leave their jobs in Italy, for example, to perform the same tasks in, say, New York, for much better pay would have worked and did work a century ago. But now? I sincerely doubt it.
The other group would consist of accordion repairers. Could you see them leaving their private practice to work in a.factory? I can’t.
So even if I could identify qualified workers to man those theoretical new factories, you could build the factories but rhey wouldn’t come.

I personally believe that the future of accordion manufacturing can take three forms. One would be what is now happening in Italy— continuing in the traditional way until the last traditional company can no longer afford to operate without Chinese investment.

The second scenario I see is that accordions manufactured in China will improve to the point of acceptance by the community of professional accordionists. Of course, there would be some wxchange of money, skill and design between this scenario and the first one.

The third scenario takes us into the realm of reedless and digital accordions. I don’t see anything new coming out of Roland. I do see some heightened interest in those manufactured by Concerto, Cavagnolo, and that newcomer, Proxima. There will also be some interest in reedless accordions made by MusicTech and Master. How much of the market any of the manufacturers in this third scenario can capture is anybody’s guess.
 

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Your 1st option may be banned soon as the EU is tightening rules about Chinese investments in the. EU. Presently in synopsis EU competition does not allow state aided EU companies to buy out internal EU companies why would it allow Chinese state aided companies do it. It makes no sense.
Godgi
 

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