Digital: GOAT

[Walker]

Digital novice here.

What is the best ever digital accordion? And why?

Who are the greatest digital accordionists?

Many thanks,

W.

 

[JerryPH]

Well, my opinion may be biased, but I feel Michael Bridge would rank up near the top simply because he is world class on acoustic and has done things on the 8X that have yet to be recreated or bested by anyone. Cory Pesaturo would likely class as the best digital accordionist in the jazz/improv genre.





There are a few not far behind...

John Letieri:



There are others like Sergei Teleshev that are really good too.

That is super hard to place one person as GOAT.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Maybe the best digital PA is yet to come. I don’t know if you’re looking for one person’s opinion or a consensus, but in the end, we all love our digitals — until we don’t.

As an example, my FR-4x suited me just fine, until one fateful day a few months ago. I hadn’t played it for a few weeks, and then I made the mistake of attempting to play it on a set of ten freshly-charged batteries, or so I assumed.

The accordion locked up. The display looked normal, but there was no sound coming from the treble until I pressed a register switch, and then, the sound was that of a weak toy electronic organ and further register changes did not change that sound.

OK, on to the bass. Touching a bass button gave me a bass note that sounded continuously until I removed all power from the accordion — even the power button wouldn’t work.

So then, with the power off for about fifteen minutes, I tried with the power adapter, because I began to suspect the batteries and by then the FR-4x should have reset. It didn’t. I pressed the menu button, hoping to be able to do a factory reset, and it came up, “Write? Y/N.”

Well, I wasn’t about to go further. So, I let the accordion rest overnight. The next day, I pulled the batteries out, connected the power adapter, and the accordion was still locked up. Same thing the day after that, so, I called my dealer for advice. He contacted THE V-Accordion tech at Roland, who essentially requested that I send it from Long Island to Roland in California, a five-business-day trip.

During that trip, the accordion must have finally reset itself, because Roland tested it with both their batteries and their power adapter and it was fine — no problems.

I got the accordion back, and I’ve played it on its power adapter ever since with no batteries in the accordion. I also checked the batteries that were in the accordion when it first locked up. Two of the ten batteries were bad. They refused to take a charge.

So, do I think my FR-4x is the best digital PA ever made? The answer has to be a qualified “yes,” and I think you can guess what makes that yes qualified.

 

[Alan Sharkis]

O

Well, my opinion may be biased, but I feel Michael Bridge would rank up near the top simply because he is world class on acoustic and has done things on the 8X that have yet to be recreated or bested by anyone. Cory Pesaturo would likely class as the best digital accordionist in the jazz/improv genre.





There are a few not far behind...

John Letieri:



There are others like Sergei Teleshev that are really good too.

That is super hard to place one person as GOAT.

Jerry, Michael Bridge performs that 1812 Overture on an EVO, as well.

 

[Ventura]

first answer:

the best digital accordion is a simple MIDI accordion

because it can sound and be anything you want it to be,
today, tomorrow, 20 years from now, as long as it powers up
because MIDI is universal and represents freedom

BUT

the accordion playing community is simply not generally inclined or
able to be technical and craft their own systems, so they gladly give
up infinite possibilities and trade that in for something some manufacturer
creates that is by definition a consumable item and has built in obsolescence
with features limited largely by Price point and marketing departments

owners go even further, typically, and pretty much don't even personally
explore much of the variables built in to their well defined instruments,
but prefer to let one among them do the (sort of) customizing and then they
all buy his programming and load it up

and they are very happy

and they spend a lot of time playing

but they are all kind of the same, and don't mind that

some people build their own "choppers" and ride their own wave through life..
most buy one someone else built for them and ride the wave

second answer:

the best one you can afford

third answer

the best one you can afford NOW

essentially, for a time, modern accordionists who wanted to go beyond Acoustic
were given freedom from the OrganAccordion millstones that we suffered
around our necks for decades by the promise of MIDI

but it was too much for the the accordion world to handle

so we are again at the tender mercy of manufacturers that craft
truly wonderful (but nevertheless, still millstones) for us to spend
ooodles of money on and praise publicly while bitterly decrying
their annoying limitations privately

some have well defined needs and usage that make certain models very workable
and fun, many others never get anywhere near their moneys worth out of them

forth answer:

the one that God himself and the luck of the Irish suddenly put directly
into the path of your Life at a price that is a STEAL and you are (barely)
quick enough on the uptake to grab it and thank your lucky stars and
play the living heck out of it for the foreseeable future

 

[debra]

Language plays tricks on us. (Or the wrong use of language to be more accurate.)
Looking for the best digital accordion is an impossible search just like the search for the cheapest gas station.
There are at least 7 usable words that can be placed in a strict order: worst, worse, bad, mediocre, good, better best.
Looking for the "best" digital accordion requires that there are at least "good" digital accordions, perhaps better ones than those, and then the best one. In my opinion (but others may differ in opinion) the development of accordions is still in the "mediocre" territory when comparing a digital accordion (as an accordion, not as a synthesizer emulating many instruments) to an acoustic one. There are good, better and best acoustic accordions, but the world of digital accordions is still topped out at "mediocre", not yet achieving the stage where they can fool people with fully functional hearing into believing they are actually an accordion.
(The comparison with gas stations is: currently gas is very expensive. There are extremely expensive gas stations, and some may be somewhat less extremely expensive, but even the least expensive gas stations are still expensive. No gas station currently qualifies as "cheap" in my book, and thus there are no cheaper or cheapest gas stations, only less expensive ones.)

 

[Walker]

Thanks for all the perspectives. Seems there are lots of digital accordion wizards on a Roland FR4/7/8 or an Evo etc.

Yet, as with everything, high tech items can be great, until a glitch. And then there's the musical side. I had quite forgotten for a hazy moment or two that despite the keyboards and buttons and bellows, that these instruments are created differently to traditional instruments. With factory settings unaltered, each clone of its brother and sister instruments will sit there waiting for an owner to give it a personality of its own. I suppose that's part of the charm, and an extra creative layer of the digital age.

However, Paul makes an interesting point. When compared to a traditional accordion, the sorcery of technology in a FR8 for example can create a rainbow of sounds. But, when we get to the nitty gritty of accordion sounds - can a digital really compete with the tone of an acoustic accordion? I don't know. I would have thought there are sound modules available with Morinos, Dallapes, Golas and Super VIs etc sampled... Are they a pale substitute for the real thing?

With Ventura's thoughts, I find myself enjoying the poetry of option 4, but actually leaning towards option 1 - the traditional instrument with midi on both hands. And maybe there is a case for having 'mute' switches on the treble and bass to disengage the reeds on the occasions you want to go truly synthesised.

MIDI might not be the full digital experience, without the marvels of different bass systems available on demand etc! But I suppose one can still enjoy experimenting with new sound modules and a degree of sound personalisation? Difficult...

What about this thought:

Say an accordion player has a beautiful acoustic (stradella) accordion, I don't know, maybe a 1950s Excelsior Symphony Grand Citation or a vintage Victoria. Then they want to use technology to enhance the accordion experience. So they midi the bass and chords. They get a special sound module with a grand piano sampled from a famous Steinway on bass and chords. Then say they were to add an extra bass layer - imagine an amazing Gasparo de Salo double bass or a Pietro Guarneri cello...

Would this be an example of making a great stradella accordion sound even more amazing - by the exceptionally sampled bass/chord accompaniment?

Or does such restrained use totally miss the point of having a midi or digital instrument?


​

 

[losthobos]

Language plays tricks on us. (Or the wrong use of language to be more accurate.)
Looking for the best digital accordion is an impossible search just like the search for the cheapest gas station.
There are at least 7 usable words that can be placed in a strict order: worst, worse, bad, mediocre, good, better best.
Looking for the "best" digital accordion requires that there are at least "good" digital accordions, perhaps better ones than those, and then the best one. In my opinion (but others may differ in opinion) the development of accordions is still in the "mediocre" territory when comparing a digital accordion (as an accordion, not as a synthesizer emulating many instruments) to an acoustic one. There are good, better and best acoustic accordions, but the world of digital accordions is still topped out at "mediocre", not yet achieving the stage where they can fool people with fully functional hearing into believing they are actually an accordion.
(The comparison with gas stations is: currently gas is very expensive. There are extremely expensive gas stations, and some may be somewhat less extremely expensive, but even the least expensive gas stations are still expensive. No gas station currently qualifies as "cheap" in my book, and thus there are no cheaper or cheapest gas stations, only less expensive ones.)

What about this thought:

Say an accordion player has a beautiful acoustic (stradella) accordion, I don't know, maybe a 1950s Excelsior Symphony Grand Citation or a vintage Victoria. Then they want to use technology to enhance the accordion experience. So they midi the bass and chords. They get a special sound module with a grand piano sampled from a famous Steinway on bass and chords. Then say there were to add an extra bass layer - imagine an amazing Gasparo de Salo double bass or a Pietro Guarneri cello...

Would this be an example of making a great stradella accordion sound even more amazing - by the exceptionally sampled bass/chord accompaniment?

Or does such restrained use totally miss the point of having a midi or digital instrument?


​

Yep.....both speaking the truth.....midi electronic experiments are an abhorrent assault on my senses which haven't quite managed to settle for synthetic yet .... I'll give the cruise ship disco a miss thanks...
However I am a sucker for a Hammond emulator and perhaps it sneaks under my aural radar as it never had dynamic abilities itself ... midi allows infinite sustain without bellows redirection crushing you're only chance of power which is a monstrously sustained top note ..

 

[saundersbp]

Speaking personally, I have not come across anything I wanted to do musically that I couldn't do on an acoustic instrument. There's still loads that acoustic instruments can do but I'm not good enough yet to get them to do, one day!

 

[Walker]

Never mind the debate about digital/midi/acoustic - I am still reeling from the genius of the two poetic heavyweights of the AF - Ventura and Losthobos.

forth answer:

the one that God himself and the luck of the Irish suddenly put directly
into the path of your Life at a price that is a STEAL and you are (barely)
quick enough on the uptake to grab it and thank your lucky stars and
play the living heck out of it for the foreseeable future

Yep.....both speaking the truth.....midi electronic experiments are an abhorrent assault on my senses which haven't quite managed to settle for synthetic yet .... I'll give the cruise ship disco a miss thanks...

24 karat linguistic gold!

 

[Chris Laarman]

Thanks for all the perspectives. Seems there are lots of digital accordion wizards on a Roland FR4/7/8 or an Evo etc.

Yet, as with everything, high tech items can be great, until a glitch. And then there's the musical side. I had quite forgotten for a hazy moment or two that despite the keyboards and buttons and bellows, that these instruments are created differently to traditional instruments. With factory settings unaltered, each clone of its brother and sister instruments will sit there waiting for an owner to give it a personality of its own. I suppose that's part of the charm, and an extra creative layer of the digital age.

However, Paul makes an interesting point. When compared to a traditional accordion, the sorcery of technology in a FR8 for example can create a rainbow of sounds. But, when we get to the nitty gritty of accordion sounds - can a digital really compete with the tone of an acoustic accordion? I don't know. I would have thought there are sound modules available with Morinos, Dallapes, Golas and Super VIs etc sampled... Are they a pale substitute for the real thing?

With Ventura's thoughts, I find myself enjoying the poetry of option 4, but actually leaning towards option 1 - the traditional instrument with midi on both hands. And maybe there is a case for having 'mute' switches on the treble and bass to disengage the reeds on the occasions you want to go truly synthesised.

MIDI might not be the full digital experience, without the marvels of different bass systems available on demand etc! But I suppose one can still enjoy experimenting with new sound modules and a degree of sound personalisation? Difficult...

What about this thought:

Say an accordion player has a beautiful acoustic (stradella) accordion, I don't know, maybe a 1950s Excelsior Symphony Grand Citation or a vintage Victoria. Then they want to use technology to enhance the accordion experience. So they midi the bass and chords. They get a special sound module with a grand piano sampled from a famous Steinway on bass and chords. Then say there were to add an extra bass layer - imagine an amazing Gasparo de Salo double bass or a Pietro Guarneri cello...

Would this be an example of making a great stradella accordion sound even more amazing - by the exceptionally sampled bass/chord accompaniment?

Or does such restrained use totally miss the point of having a midi or digital instrument?


​

MIDI is vectorized sound. It consists of a Note On message, a Note Off message, and perhaps something in between. What is sounding, is outside MIDI. Playing a note on a MIDI controller is like ordering a coffee. You order it, you get it served, and perhaps you do something in between. But your order doesn't influence the coffee nor the gear used to serve you. You may want to drink your coffee with a certain amount of sugar or milk. Like you may want to use Modulation or Aftertouch while the MIDI note is sounding.
You may have a coffee from "great" beans, roasted in a "great" way, made using "great" gear. You may have your MIDI notes from a sample of a "great" instrument, processed in a "great way" (like using a "great" array of "long" samples - I seem to describe a soundfont here). Then it won't deteriorate during use. But the original "great" acoustic instrument sampled may deteriorate (like getting out of tune). - (This explanation is easy to be blown to pieces. But it'll do for the sake of argument.)

Another approach:

I had difficulty choosing between a (cheaper) acoustic button accordion and a (more expensive) V-Accordion. The acoustic one would confine me to Stradella and either B- or C-Grip. The V-Accordion would provide different options for both sides. (And I am new to accordions, implying: not used to a certain fingering. Not even to 3rd or 4th finger root.)

Both approaches boil down to "it depends..." ;-)

 

[Ventura]

when you craft a combination of different elements
until they blend to a perfection that reflects what is inside you
and then use them to your advantage
you present a finished result that is actually unique

this is the inherent advantage of MIDI and the promise it made to us
many years ago

 

[Alan Sharkis]

Please don’t discount the fact that there are sonic differences between amplified and un-amplified instruments. The same midi-equiipped accordion will sound differently when played through different amplifiers. I reasoned that an FR-8x and an EVO sound differently because the 8x’s body is plastic and the EVO’s body is wood, until somebody mentioned that the size and shape of the speaker enclosures (in this case, the space behind the grille) is different. And yet, when played through the same amp, they will sound identical. The sounds produced by the same midivmodule when played through amp A will differcfrom the sounds played through amp B.

 

[Valski]

I find these discussions entertaining. Which is better? Digital or acoustic? Piano or chromatic? Black, red, green or blue accordions? My wife encouraged me to get a forever accordion after having looked at what was available for a number of years. I looked at Italian, French and German instruments and liked some aspects but not all of them. An outstanding acoustic accordion can cost tens of thousands of dollars and you still have one tuning.

So I investigated digital accordions with midi and settled on a red Fr8x. I mention the colour because my son recommended it because to him the accordion is supposed to be a joyful instrument and the bright colour emphasized the inherent joy. There are many sounds and tunings that I can replicate so it increases the versatility and this increases my satisfaction with it. If I recall correctly, this is accordion number 8 for me and even after almost 6 years of ownership, don't feel the need to upgrade....yet.

The biggest reason that I enjoy playing it so much is that there are hundreds of backing tracks and rhythms available to me. Playing with other musicians is very satisfying however it's exceedingly difficult to find those people and most of all the time to devote to this. With the digital you have a whole bunch of options to sound great solo. When playing in public your main goal should be to entertain people, playing difficult pieces or parlor tricks isn't necessarily entertaining.

Your question regarding "the best player" isn't possible to answer because it's really a question of taste. The best accordion is also a question of taste so don't sweat it, enjoy the instrument that you play. If you can afford to get one of each by all means do so but don't discount someone's choice as an abomination.

 

[Ventura]

Playing with other musicians is very satisfying however it's exceedingly difficult to find those people and most of all the time to devote to this.

obviously i have been using MIDI and Backgrounds forever, and the quote above
has been true for a long long time

my first MIDI backgrounds in professional use often had 4 final cuts
one for a Vocalist
one for my Trumpet player
one for my Drummer
one for me

many many gigs were still in a band context, but many smaller
lower priced gigs began to transform to Duets, and i quickly
realized a duet with good backing trax had an advantage for
sophistication and finesse in performance. i was very lucky to
have sidemen and vocalists who were forward thinking and had
the chops and confidence to use trax

the flexibility on versions that could feature the sidemen correctly was
a direct function of working inside MIDI for performance, and the
YAMAHA portable laptop with Cakewalk, then the KORG i5 series of modules
(and floppy disks)

MIDI sequences are easy to incrementally adjustment/improve over time
(even years)

it worked for me, and works to this day

actually, substituting a Roland for one of my MIDI Excelsiors on a gig
was also seamless since i rely upon the underlying MIDI and modules so much

as valski noted: When playing in public your main goal should be to entertain people

 

[Walker]

If I were to go for a digital box I think I would like to try the Roland FR8X Dallape edition like @John M has. He is very enthusiastic about it and it had such a classic look. Even just the free bass options alone are cool and the Dallape sound library is a nice feature too. As a compliment to a nice acoustic instrument with midi - why not.​

 

[Alan Sharkis]

If I were to go for a digital box I think I would like to try the Roland FR8X Dallape edition like @John M has. He is very enthusiastic about it and it had such a classic look. Even just the free bass options alone are cool and the Dallape sound library is a nice feature too. As a compliment to a nice acoustic instrument with midi - why not.​

You’d have to buy a used one. Roland discontinued them years ago. But the Dallape sound extension set is available on Roland’s website.

 

[John M]

You’d have to buy a used one. Roland discontinued them years ago. But the Dallape sound extension set is available on Roland’s website.

That's what I did. I bought mine a little over a year ago from Liberty Bellows. It was used but in mint condition. The Dallape was a limited edition. Mine is #255 of the 500 that were made. It has a gloss black finish, and the “Dallape”metal grille. It is not as “flashy” as the standard FR-8X. It has a “subdued” look that I like. Also, the leather bass and back straps are wide and comfortable.

There is a world of creativity available with different sounds and the ability to make fine adjustments to get the tone quality just right. The designers did a good job of letting the end user tailor the 8X Accordion/Organ/Orchestral sounds to what they find pleasing. The editor does take some getting used to, but once you learn the "layout", it's not bad at all.

John M.

 

[JerryPH]

If I were to go for a digital box I think I would like to try the Roland FR8X Dallape edition like @John M has. He is very enthusiastic about it and it had such a classic look. Even just the free bass options alone are cool and the Dallape sound library is a nice feature too. As a compliment to a nice acoustic instrument with midi - why not.​

OPINION TIME.

The Dallape 8X is a bit of a rip-off.
1. On that model set #1 is Dallape, it cannot be removed. On a “standard” 8X you can install all the Dallape sounds for free… or not, your choice, a choice you do not have on that model.
2. The rest of the $500US premium was for a grill that said Dallape and straps that said Dallape.
3. Above differences aside, the Dallape is 100% identical to a FR-8X

What were we paying all that extra money for?

 

[Walker]

Very reasonable points Jerry.

But I wonder if there is any longer term strategy for an electronic musical instrument company having the rights to the Dallape name. Seems like a lot of effort for just 500 instruments. And they are all gone now.

If the Dallape edition can only be bought pre owned then maybe with luck a person could get one at a reasonable price. Or maybe that just pushes up the value a bit more?

I am naturally drawn to family owned accordion builders, more than international companies. If there was no further use for the Dallape name, I think that would be a shame.

I think it would be cool having an original 1976 centenary Dallape Supermaestro and the digital Dallape too...​