DIATONIC / CHROMATIC

[Chickers]

Bare with me a bit on this, as I'm not really sure I have a good grasp of all intricacies of either diatonic or chromatic.
I recently watched a video of a accordion sales pro somewhere in Texas explaining the difference between Diatonic accordions and Chromatic accordions,
however, I did not think the comparison he showed was valid as the chromatic accordion was a Roland FR-8x B electronic button style, and the diatonic was a small 31/12 acoustic button box.
I can understand the small diatonic workings as each button (at least on the treble side) has the ability of sounding two notes; one on the pull, and another note on the push, and the example showed was an acoustic so I would think one specific reed is active on the push, and another reed is activated with the same button on the pull.
The Roland is producing it's sound electronically so the push / pull is only an aesthetic thing, with no real function. I understand the push / pull on the Roland can be programmed to function as wanted.
It seems to me that an accurate, and more meaningful comparison would be with two acoustic accordions of similar size and capability. Does that make sense ?
Is there such an instrument as a "electronic" diatonic accordion , so technically it could be programmed to preference.
I apologize if I getting too abstract, and off base with my rant, but I think we have enough complications to keep straight without trying to understand how apples and oranges are the same yet soo different.----sorry about that.
Anyhow, I would appreciate any commentary and thoughts.
Thank you, CHICKERS

 

[Ventura]

a diatonic accordion, whether electronic or acoustic, must be
of a size and shape that confrms with the music, the musicians,
the marketplace, and the acceptable systems in existence
otherwise no-one would buy it.

a chromatic accordion is simply an accordion that has
a button keyboard instead of a piano keyboard, but is
otherwise the same. Many factories, brands, models are
offered with keys or buttons, your preference your choice.

i have never seen an identical physical model offered as
diatonic OR chromatic

what you imagine the Roland capabe of in programming
push/pull is likely incorrect.. i suggest you download any model
V-Accordion owners manual and read up in the relevant sections.
on Roland Piano and Button Chromatic Accordions, the bellows functions
exactly the same way they do on an acoustic chromatic accordion, period.
They affect the timbre and volume of notes, period.
their programmability is in regards to feel
(relative stiffness, intensity curve, pressure related comfort levels)

a diatonic accordion is a diatonic accordion, it has limits on notes available/
possible, and where they are located. the patterns are logical but
depending on the Key(s) the specific instrument was tuned to, those notes
vary by location and direction (between two otherwise identical instruments/models)
What music a Diatonic is intended for varies by country, genre, buider,
and so there are many types and tones and looks and styles among diatonic accordions,
and they are largely not interchangeable. the Diatonic a TexMex bandito chooses
is wildly different from what a Polish or Czech traditional musician would choose is remarkebly
different from what a Cajun musician plays

Diatonics must be used for their specific intended purpose

a full size chromatic accordion has all notes available all the time in all keys,
and it does not matter which direction you are squeezing, and the people who
buy chromatic accordions wouldn't have it any other way.. Most Chromatic accordions
are remarkably similar and in a pinch relatively interchangeable
(exepting Scottish tuned accordions) though chromatic accordions are often tuned,
voiced and tweaked towards things like Jazz, or Muesette, or Polka, they all
(Chromatic/Piano accordions) CAN play Jazz, French, Lawrence Welk, in a pinch

 

[OuijaBoard]

]]]]]I recently watched a video of a accordion sales pro somewhere in Texas explaining the difference between Diatonic accordions and Chromatic accordions, however, I did not think the comparison he showed was valid as the chromatic accordion was a Roland FR-8x B electronic button style, and the diatonic was a small 31/12 acoustic button box.[[[[[

You're incorrect on that one--The demonstration was valid. That is because the difference the salesperson was demonstrating was applicable to the two types of instruments regardless of whether one was digital and one was acoustic.

First, a word about terminology. Technically, the salesperson was actually showing the difference between unisonoric versus bisonoric instruments.

On a unisonoric instrument, touching a key or button gives you the same note in either direction. This is true of both piano accordions and so-called "Chromatic Button Accordions." Roland offers both PAs and CBAs. Those instruments are both unisonoric. Please note that both PAs and CBAs are also "chromatic" instruments in the sense that they contain all 12 tones, not just the seven tones in the do-re-mi scale. But terminology-wise, one of these chromatic instruments is known as a piano accordion and the other of these chromatic instruments is a certain type of unisonoric button accordion known as a "Chromatic Button Accordion" or, "French Chromatic" or, "Continental Chromatic" accordion.

More about terminology: The bisonoric button accordions that sound two notes per button depending on the direction are colloquially known to many bisonoric accordion players as "diatonic" boxes even when they are not truly diatonic. Technically, "Diatonic" does not mean bisonoric. It means you do not have the full 12-tone chromatic scale with all the semitone sharps and flats. One row of buttons contains the seven tones of a major scale, not a full 12-tone chromatic scale.

Some bisonoric button accordions are indeed "Diatonic." Such as a one-row melodeon. That box is like a harmonica--it is one row of buttons for the 7 tones (or 8 tones, tonic to tonic) of one major scale in one key. Just the Do-Re-Mi scale. Each button giving two notes, one in each direction. But it does not contain all 12 semitones. Some two and even three-row bisonoric accordions are also "Diatonic," as the three scales in the three rows of buttons still don't contain all 12 tones. Over time some of those three-row bisonoric systems have added missing sharps/flats at the far ends of the rows. But those boxes are still essentially "Diatonic." Same with some two-row bisonoric boxes where the two rows are a fifth apart, like a G/D or D/A button accordion.

However, other bisonoric button accordions are indeed fuilly "Chromatic." The two-row boxes used in Irish traditional music where the two rows are set a semitone apart, contain all 12 tones. Such as the B/C, the C#/D, the D/D#, etc. It is an ingenious layout on a bisonoric button accordion that ensures a fully chromatic box, often in a tiny, 6 or 7 pound package. (Of course, the basses are very limited and are truly "Diatonic," not fully chromatic).

But in a colloquial habit in the world of button accordion geekdom, "Diatonic" is often loosely and incorrectly used to mean any bisonoric accordion. even fully chromatic bisonoric button accordions.

A Roland, however, whether it is a PA Roland or a CBA Roland, is a fully "Chromatic" instrument as well as being a "unisonoric" instrument. And no, Rolands are not programmable to sound different notes in each direction on the same key or button. In other words, they are not programmable to be bisonoric.

The salesperson's compare-and-contrast demo was valid. But the person was using the confusing terminology often used here in Accordion World. They were actually demonstrating the difference between bisonoric versus unisonoric instruments.


Okay?

 

[Alan Sharkis]

OK, just to muddy the waters a little bit, there are accordions with a mix of diatonic and chromatic in the same instrument. Here are some examples:

Schrammel accordions
Some Club accordions
Steirische(sp?) Harmonikas

But getting back to Roland accordions; while it’s true that the later models had bellows pressure sensors that could detect bellows direction as well as pressure, that doesn’t mean that they could be programmed to be bisonoric. Roland did, some years ago, produce a diatonic accordion, the FR-18, but that has been discussed before in this or a similar thread.

 

[Chickers]

Thank you all for the detailed information, and for correcting many of my mis-conceptions of various accordion type instruments.
Obviously the technology and the musicality of accordions (of many types) go far beyond my meager understanding.
Maybe one of these days----along with help as shared on this forum--- I'll get a "good" grasp of what music and musicianship is all about.
Thanks again to all for taking the time to comment.
Chickers

 

[tcabot]

Accordion widely-accepted terminology is a bit messed up, as folks have already mentioned. But generally, folks refer to "diatonic" meaning the bisonoric instruments, and "chromatic" meaning unisonoric instruments. There's also a "mixte" class, where your basses are unisonoric, but your melody is bisonoric.

Re digital "diatonics", Roland FR "18" melodeon is probably the only mass-produced one.

Just to confuse things even further:
One-row melodeons, G/C two-row melodeon, Steirische harmonika: Bisonoric & diatonic;
"Hromka" harmonika: unisonoric & diatonic;
Bandoneon, 3-row Club, modern French 3-row melodeons: bisonoric, but capable of playing a chromatic scale.
British Chromatic Accordion, Darwin melodeon: bisonoric melody, capable of playing a chromatic scale; Unisonoric Bass.
CBA, PA: Unisonoric, chromatic.