buzz on some of the tones (edited)

[Marije]

Hi!
I have just bought a second hand Scandalli Cantore 72, 3 voices, and while I like generally like the sound, there is a buzz-like sharp edge to some of the notes, in the lower section, but also definitely in the musette and full accordion sound, when all 3 voices play.. It is like a reverberation or buzz, and it gets quite annoying because the sound comes so close to my ear...

The single 8 voice doesn't buzz at all, so I'm wondering if it is something that can be fixed..
Does anyone know if this could be solved by tuning/repair?

thanks!

 

[JIM D.]

I would say in your situation you have 1 or 2 problems that can be corrected. Most likely your buzzing or fluttering is from a (leather or plastic) valve or valves not seating properly. This situation is also the result of a reed or reeds loose in the reed block and will need to be
rewaxed. In both cases you will need to pull the pins and inspect the offending reeds.

 

[Stephen Selby]

Can I jump on this wagon? I'm renovating a 120b piano accordion. I'm focussing on the treble side for now.
It was clear that the leathers were old/curled and some reeds were just a little rusty, so I have had all the reed shoes out, cleaned the reeds and replaced the leathers, then waxed everything back in. Important: in the reed block and using a tuning bench to sound the reeds, everything sounds fine on pull and push.
Now I put the blocks back in place and fix back the end of the concertina. On the push, everything sounds fine. On the pull, the mid and lower sounds (lower notes first octave) make a terrible buzzing and flapping racket.
Question: could there be a problem with the reed bank selectors somehow strangling the airflow?

 

[debra]

These questions (from Marije and Stephen) are notoriously hard to answer because all we have is just a written description of the problem, and many different "sounds" could be described as a "buzz". There is "buzz" generated when a reed is touching the reed plate while vibrating (misalignment), there is "buzz" generated when the reed is touching the side of the resonance chamber (in the reed block), there is "buzz" generated when the reed is touching the (leather) valve when playing loudly, there is "buzz" generated when the valve is vibrating itself, most common when the booster spring is deformed or when it's a faux-leather valve with plastic booster springs, there may be a "buzz" when the reed block isn't sitting tight inside the accordion (air loss between the block and the soundboard), and there can be a buzz when sometime inside the accordion is resonating with the note's frequency (happens with a grille for instance)...
I have had cases where even just the orientation mattered, like no buzz when the accordion is resting on its feet, but a buzz when in playing orientation or the other way around...
The first thing that could aid in any of us getting a clue what might be going on is a sound sample. It's like letting the accordion "speak" and is the first step towards making a diagnosis possible. Diagnosis on an accordion is a bit like diagnosis on animals. Hard to do when you only have a written description like "when my dog barks it sounds more rough than before; what illness could he have, and is it fatal or can you cure it?"...

 

[debra]

If in the end you do not manage to find and fix the problem you can perhaps consider a trip to a friendly non-commercial repairer in Eindhoven..

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

That’s a great answer, Paul...You mentioned a few I wouldn’t have thought of, if trying to list from memory. There is also a buzz when the wax has failed and the reed plate is a bit loose against the block.

 

[debra]

That’s a great answer, Paul...You mentioned a few I wouldn’t have thought of, if trying to list from memory. There is also a buzz when the wax has failed and the reed plate is a bit loose against the block.

And there is one more... I have seen a case where when the inside reed was being played softly (that's on pull) the air coming out (through the valve being blown open a but) caused the outside reed to give a metallic buzz. If the sound was just a tad louder the buzz would stop. The solution was a valve replacement. The outside reed with the metallic buzz was not touching anything. It was just being "agitated" by the bit of air (vibrating as the note was being played) and the reed started to buzz. I actually had to try a few different valves in order to find one that cured the problem.

 

[jollyrogeraccordions]

yes it can be very subtle. To go back to the OP, a set of tuning bellows (I have a foot operated one) can be very useful for diagnosing buzzes emanating from a reed block, if you can get it to buzz on the tuning table...you have homed in on the culprit reed block and reeds. Sometimes you need to pop off a reed and play with it to fix the problem, then refix. It’s the 'binary chop' method. Keep eliminating bits of the accordion until you are focussed on the problem site. This can involve masking tape, removing valves etc.

 

[debra]

yes it can be very subtle. To go back to the OP, a set of tuning bellows (I have a foot operated one) can be very useful for diagnosing buzzes emanating from a reed block, if you can get it to buzz on the tuning table...you have homed in on the culprit reed block and reeds. ...

A tuning bellow is indeed very useful for this. (It is not very useful for tuning though as even with a half-accordion on a tuning bellow the accordion is in the wrong orientation and that influences tuning, albeit minor.)
Sadly sometimes a problem cannot be found on the tuning bellows because the problem only occurs when the accordion is completely together (and in the playing orientation). When the problem disappears when you disassemble something (that isn't vibrating or buzzing itself, like the grille or sometimes the register mechanism) the job of diagnosing the problem isn't all that different from a vet who needs to diagnose an animal without cutting into it.

 

[Gonk]

Re: tuning bellows, in my experience they're useful for correcting pitch - you still have to measure the pitch while assembled, then measure it again on the tuning bellows, and correct for the amount of difference. But your comment has me intrigued, Paul. How do you tune? At the risk of thread drift.