Bugari with optional mussette

[Dingo40]

I have a Bugari Armando model 260/CHC 41/120-4/5-13+M+7 cass., which I bought in the late eighties in a moment of self indulgence and mad ambition (well beyond my talents).
It looks and sounds similar to the instrument on the link below, except that it has a couple of coupler switches which enable (and disable) a musette tuning at will.
My question is: how does the musette actually work?
Is it an extra reed bank or what?
I have tried to find it on the web, but no luck!
Actually, these musette selectors are what has given me the only trouble I’ve had with the instrument.
I understand there are some kind of plastic parts in the design and the mechanism completely broke down twice in the life of the instrument: about 18 months after I first got it, and then decades later, about two year ago. Luckily, Ron Pearce, our local technician was able to hunt down the required parts ( in Italy), after much trouble, and fix it.
Anyway, if anyone knows how the musette effect functions, I’d be grateful for the information 

 

[maugein96]

My question is: how does the musette actually work?

Hi Dingo,

If Im correct your box will be an LMMH, and as such is incapable of producing full three voice musette. 

Dont know if your coupler switches are marked to show which reed(s) are switched on when you use them, but on boxes like yours the musette couplers would normally select the two MM reeds plus your H to give a sound something like this. This clip is described as MM only, but the sound would likely be similar:-



Your accordion may well have two couplers that perform the same function, and the end result of that combination will be Bugaris version of musette tuning, being the nearest approximation possible on that particular instrument. 

The clip below illustrates how with wider tuning between the MM reeds it is possible to reproduce a sound approaching what most people would class as musette tuning. This little Maugein Dauphin student box has wide tuning between its two MM reeds, and would generally be identified as having musette tuning. It only has two MM reed banks, so is incapable of producing true musette. However, in France, any box tuned 12 cents or wider even with only two banks of MM reeds is classed as musette  



If you tried to pass that tuning off in Scotland or Amsterdam as musette you wouldnt get away with it, as the sound is missing the flat tuned M reeds for that full sound. It would however be acceptable in France, and probably Italy. 

With regard to the technical aspects and internal workings of your box and parts etc, I have no clue whatsoever. I filled out the wrong job application form, and ended up as a drain surgeon instead of a brain surgeon.  

Hope the info helps and doesnt cause further confusion.

 

[debra]

I have a Bugari Armando model 260/CHC 41/120-4/5-13+M+7 cass., which I bought in the late eighties in a moment of self indulgence and mad ambition (well beyond my talents).
It looks and sounds similar to the instrument on the link below, except that it has a couple of coupler switches which enable (and disable) a musette tuning at will.
My question is: how does the musette actually work?
Is it an extra reed bank or what?...

This setup is not  very common but I have seen it a couple of times, both for turning on/off tremolo and sometimes for turning on/off a "quint" or "fifth" register. Typically you will have two register switches for it, at the opposite ends of the series of registers.
Your accordion is normally LMMH (but the same can also exist on an LMMM instrument; I am assuming LMMH now). The "normal" registers control the dry-tuned L, M and H registers, so there are then L, M, H, LM, LH, MH, LMH as choices. The extra couple of switches leaves the selected register as is and enables/disables the second M reed bank (so yes, it is an extra reed bank on top of the basic 3). This lets you add tremolo to any of the 7 basic registers, giving you a total of 14 different sounds, with only 9 register switches needed. (The 262/CHC normally has 13 register switches.)
A slight disadvantage of this setup is that if you want to switch from a dry register to a different register + tremolo you have to click two switches, for instance to go from LM to MM. I think this is the main reason why few accordions use this on/off tremolo switch system and have only complete register combinations.

 

[Dingo40]

Dear Maugein,
Thanks for responding!
The little Maugein sounds very like my Bugari in it’s “wet” mode.
The instrument is basically LMMH in configuration and “medium dry” tuned. However, for each and every of the dozen or so coupler settings, by applying a pair of extra switches (one “on” and one “off”) it is possible to apply an extra layer of “wetness “ to each of the coupler settings at will.
As I say, I’m flummoxed as to how it actually works, but the effect seems as if these extra levers “plug in” an extra set of reeds, but I don’t really know.
There is a “saxophone “ coupling. By applying the extra musette switch, you see to get a ‘double’ saxophone effect. :huh:

---

I have a Bugari Armando model 260/CHC 41/120-4/5-13+M+7 cass., which I bought in the late eighties in a moment of self indulgence and mad ambition (well beyond my talents).
It looks and sounds similar to the instrument on the link below, except that it has a couple of coupler switches which enable (and disable) a musette tuning at will.
My question is: how does the musette actually work?
Is it an extra reed bank or what?...

This setup is not  very common but I have seen it a couple of times, both for turning on/off tremolo and sometimes for turning on/off a "quint" or "fifth" register. Typically you will have two register switches for it, at the opposite ends of the series of registers.
Your accordion is normally LMMH (but the same can also exist on an LMMM instrument; I am assuming LMMH now). The "normal" registers control the dry-tuned L, M and H registers, so there are then L, M, H, LM, LH, MH, LMH as choices. The extra couple of switches leaves the selected register as is and enables/disables the second M reed bank (so yes, it is an extra reed bank on top of the basic 3). This lets you add tremolo to any of the 7 basic registers, giving you a total of 14 different sounds, with only 9 register switches needed. (The 262/CHC normally has 13 register switches.)
A slight disadvantage of this setup is that if you want to switch from a dry register to a different register + tremolo you have to click two switches, for instance to go from LM to MM. I think this is the main reason why few accordions use this on/off tremolo switch system and have only complete register combinations.

Debra,
You describe it precisely!
Yes, the “ musette” activator/deactivator switches are at the opposite ends of the coupler bank and yes , switching from a wet to a dry coupling would require operating two switches in succession.
Also, the treble box is quite noticeably “fat” suggesting it could be housing an extra reed bank. (Of course, the bass box already hold five banks of reeds and is equally “fat”)
It does seem to me you may have solved my conundrum .
Thanks! 

 

[maugein96]

Dear Maugein,
Thanks for responding!
The little Maugein sounds very like my Bugari in it’s “wet” mode.

Dingo,

If your musette sounds like the Maugein then your sharp tuned M reed bank is much higher than what would be considered normal for a LMMH. I believe that both your L and your straight tuned M reeds are in cassotto. 

I think Paul has solved the mystery of how it all works, but Ive never owned a box with more than 5 different register combinations, so the prospect of all those PA type treble couplers is mind boggling. 

We French CBA types just have to make do with LMM, 6 selector switches on the rear, and two of those serve the same purpose as master switches to switch everything on. You can get LMMH boxes with the 6 levers offering 12 different positions, according to whether they are in the up or down position, but you need a very accurate right thumb (and memory) to get it right every time. 

I have one LMM box that only has three of those dual function levers, and the top lever serves as a good neighbour switch, as when you put it in the up position it switches everything off. It was designed for use with midi, and is my wifes favourite register. 

Havent played for quite some time now, but still have a look on here now and again. I never managed to make much of the accordion without a teacher, and by the time I found one it was too late. I just never had the patience to go to lesson one, page one again, and my left hand does guitar, and any other stringed instrument for that matter, a whole lot better than stradella, which ultimately proved to be my nemesis. 

Now, had I been an Italian pro CBA player in a band from the Bologna area it probably wouldnt have mattered, as I have it on authority that several of them just take the bass reeds out and use the air button to play mostly on the draw. The original Bolognese organettos, and the CBAs derived from them, dont have any bass buttons at all. 

 

Only issue I would now have with playing that style is Id need to comb the hair from my armpits up onto my head, like a certain president. Seems theres always a snag attached to accordions.

 

[Jim2010]

Dear Maugein,
Thanks for responding!
The little Maugein sounds very like my Bugari in it’s “wet” mode.

Dingo,

If your musette sounds like the Maugein then your sharp tuned M reed bank is much higher than what would be considered normal for a LMMH. I believe that both your L and your straight tuned M reeds are in cassotto. 

I think Paul has solved the mystery of how it all works, but Ive never owned a box with more than 5 different register combinations, so the prospect of all those PA type treble couplers is mind boggling. 

We French CBA types just have to make do with LMM, 6 selector switches on the rear, and two of those serve the same purpose as master switches to switch everything on. You can get LMMH boxes with the 6 levers offering 12 different positions, according to whether they are in the up or down position, but you need a very accurate right thumb (and memory) to get it right every time. 

I have one LMM box that only has three of those dual function levers, and the top lever serves as a good neighbour switch, as when you put it in the up position it switches everything off. It was designed for use with midi, and is my wifes favourite register. 

Havent played for quite some time now, but still have a look on here now and again. I never managed to make much of the accordion without a teacher, and by the time I found one it was too late. I just never had the patience to go to lesson one, page one again, and my left hand does guitar, and any other stringed instrument for that matter, a whole lot better than stradella, which ultimately proved to be my nemesis. 

Now, had I been an Italian pro CBA player in a band from the Bologna area it probably wouldnt have mattered, as I have it on authority that several of them just take the bass reeds out and use the air button to play mostly on the draw. The original Bolognese organettos, and the CBAs derived from them, dont have any bass buttons at all. 

 

Only issue I would now have with playing that style is Id need to comb the hair from my armpits up onto my head, like a certain president. Seems theres always a snag attached to accordions.

Dear Maugein,
Is the Stocco accordion being played in the video a modified instrument or does it come without base buttons origionally? If original, do other companies make such an instrument?

 

[maugein96]

Dear Maugein,
Is the Stocco accordion being played in the video a modified instrument or does it come without base buttons origionally? If original, do other companies make such an instrument?

Jim,

Doubt whether youd be able to buy a new one these days. Fratelli Crosio is the only other make Ive seen, and Ruggero Passarini (grandfather of the guy in the clip) played on those. 

Stocco is still going in Stradella, but there are no Bolognese CBAs in their current catalogue. Crosio went out of business a long time ago. 

The accordions were indeed built without basses, but the number of players now amounts to a mere handful. A guy name Andrea Scala plays a Stocco PA version:-



The instruments were made as a modern version of the organetto bolognese for playing a style of dance music known as Filuzzi, made popular in the Bologna area. The genre is comprised totally of waltzes, mazurkas, and polkas, and modern players just tend to play full sized CBAs built to a specification similar to French CBAs. Most of them dont bother with the bass side and rely on orchestral backing to cover bass accompaniment. 

In the area of Parma and Modena, boxes like this one used to be quite popular, but the Belgians stole the modenese bass system from Italian coalminers who went to live there. Very few modenese bass players these days, with the most famous of them being the now deceased Gigi Stok, and Barimar. Youll get them on You Tube. This is Daniele Donadelli, perhaps the last generation of modenese players.



Here is playing typical of the Bologna style. No basses at all and most of the playing on the draw. They specialise in treble button acrobatics, and youll see them shunt the bass side back in to get back on the draw regularly.

   

More of the same on PA, although the player is from Genoa



In case you find a clip of Barimar playing a normal Stradella bass, here he is on his more usual modenese bass.



Any time you see him with a stradella bass accordion (usually a Cooperfisa) he gives it the bolognese treatment and leaves the basses well alone.

In case anybody wants to know what an organetto bolognese looks and sounds like here is Leonildo Marcheselli, the guy who created the genre and developed the instrument. Four rows of chromatic treble buttons with no basses. A lot of volume from a very small instrument, from the days when accordion was synonymous with simple light hearted music:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8Ckyg9o2w

Sorry for the hijack of the original thread, but at least the organetto is musette tuned.

 

[Jim2010]

Dear Maugein,
Is the Stocco accordion being played in the video a modified instrument or does it come without base buttons origionally? If original, do other companies make such an instrument?

Jim,

Doubt whether youd be able to buy a new one these days. Fratelli Crosio is the only other make Ive seen, and Ruggero Passarini (grandfather of the guy in the clip) played on those. 

Stocco is still going in Stradella, but there are no Bolognese CBAs in their current catalogue. Crosio went out of business a long time ago. 

The accordions were indeed built without basses, but the number of players now amounts to a mere handful. A guy name Andrea Scala plays a Stocco PA version:-



The instruments were made as a modern version of the organetto bolognese for playing a style of dance music known as Filuzzi, made popular in the Bologna area. The genre is comprised totally of waltzes, mazurkas, and polkas, and modern players just tend to play full sized CBAs built to a specification similar to French CBAs. Most of them dont bother with the bass side and rely on orchestral backing to cover bass accompaniment. 

In the area of Parma and Modena, boxes like this one used to be quite popular, but the Belgians stole the modenese bass system from Italian coalminers who went to live there. Very few modenese bass players these days, with the most famous of them being the now deceased Gigi Stok, and Barimar. Youll get them on You Tube. This is Daniele Donadelli, perhaps the last generation of modenese players.



Here is playing typical of the Bologna style. No basses at all and most of the playing on the draw. They specialise in treble button acrobatics, and youll see them shunt the bass side back in to get back on the draw regularly.

   

More of the same on PA, although the player is from Genoa



In case you find a clip of Barimar playing a normal Stradella bass, here he is on his more usual modenese bass.



Any time you see him with a stradella bass accordion (usually a Cooperfisa) he gives it the bolognese treatment and leaves the basses well alone.

In case anybody wants to know what an organetto bolognese looks and sounds like here is Leonildo Marcheselli, the guy who created the genre and developed the instrument. Four rows of chromatic treble buttons with no basses. A lot of volume from a very small instrument, from the days when accordion was synonymous with simple light hearted music:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8Ckyg9o2w

Sorry for the hijack of the original thread, but at least the organetto is musette tuned.

Thank you.

 

[Dingo40]

Dear Maugein,
Is the Stocco accordion being played in the video a modified instrument or does it come without base buttons origionally? If original, do other companies make such an instrument?

Jim,

Doubt whether youd be able to buy a new one these days. Fratelli Crosio is the only other make Ive seen, and Ruggero Passarini (grandfather of the guy in the clip) played on those. 

Stocco is still going in Stradella, but there are no Bolognese CBAs in their current catalogue. Crosio went out of business a long time ago. 

The accordions were indeed built without basses, but the number of players now amounts to a mere handful. A guy name Andrea Scala plays a Stocco PA version:-



The instruments were made as a modern version of the organetto bolognese for playing a style of dance music known as Filuzzi, made popular in the Bologna area. The genre is comprised totally of waltzes, mazurkas, and polkas, and modern players just tend to play full sized CBAs built to a specification similar to French CBAs. Most of them dont bother with the bass side and rely on orchestral backing to cover bass accompaniment. 

In the area of Parma and Modena, boxes like this one used to be quite popular, but the Belgians stole the modenese bass system from Italian coalminers who went to live there. Very few modenese bass players these days, with the most famous of them being the now deceased Gigi Stok, and Barimar. Youll get them on You Tube. This is Daniele Donadelli, perhaps the last generation of modenese players.



Here is playing typical of the Bologna style. No basses at all and most of the playing on the draw. They specialise in treble button acrobatics, and youll see them shunt the bass side back in to get back on the draw regularly.

   

More of the same on PA, although the player is from Genoa



In case you find a clip of Barimar playing a normal Stradella bass, here he is on his more usual modenese bass.



Any time you see him with a stradella bass accordion (usually a Cooperfisa) he gives it the bolognese treatment and leaves the basses well alone.

In case anybody wants to know what an organetto bolognese looks and sounds like here is Leonildo Marcheselli, the guy who created the genre and developed the instrument. Four rows of chromatic treble buttons with no basses. A lot of volume from a very small instrument, from the days when accordion was synonymous with simple light hearted music:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jm8Ckyg9o2w

Sorry for the hijack of the original thread, but at least the organetto is musette tuned.

Maugein,
Amazing: effectively, they are playing in the right hand only. So usually the accordion as a species of keyboard.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Dingo,

I was introduced to the Filuzzi style about 30 years ago. The late Carlo Venturi took it to another level and there are still a handful of players who play it, mainly on full size CBAs.

It seems they were, and still are, only concerned with playing the treble side, in the tradition of the organetto bolognese. Carlo Venturi is regarded (by some) as being the best CBA player ever to come out of Italy, and none of his pupils tend to use the basses at all. Barbara Lucchi, and one or two others, reportedly play their CBAs with all of the bass reeds removed to make it easier for them to play sensa bassi.

I put this up for discussion on the forum some time ago, as initially I too wondered why they never used the bass. It was suggested that they never needed to because they had backing bands. Whilst that was indeed very apt, the penny finally dropped that they were effectively playing tunes in the regional organetto style, and the only reason they were playing on CBA was for the greater range and tonal possibilities. I did note that several players from elsewhere in Italy, and indeed in other countries, also play without basses in a band situation. 

Now I dont know what the situation is in modern day Italy with regard to accordion tuition, but it would seem that young players are being encouraged to play the bass side, probably as it is essential for formal accordion study.

The fact remains that quite a number of players copied the style and technique of Maestro Venturi. I do believe Ive heard him use the bass in his earlier material, but it sort of became a fad with accordionists in Emilia Romagna to play sensa bassi. It is after all a regional style indelibly linked to an instrument which had no bass reeds at all, and which is no longer manufactured. I dare say that in time the young players will start to play properly again, although Ive seen one or two Italian players who are now in middle age, who have had full size CBA instruments made without bass buttons at all. 

For all the purists out there who believe an accordion requires bass and treble, this guy set out to prove that wasnt the case. Youll see the big air button on what would be the bass side, used to obtain the bellows effects used in Filuzzi style. OK, it probably isnt actually an accordion at all, but to about 99.999% of the world population it looks and sounds like an accordion.



His grandson, Massimo Budriesi, is probably the last generation of players who will take to the stage with such an instrument. Crazy thing is, Filuzzi, and the instruments used to play it, arent really widely known in other parts of Italy, never mind elsewhere. 

Two guys from Bologna went on Italias got talent to demonstrate the Polca Chinata, and had to explain to the Italian judges what they were about to do, as the judges were clueless, and had never heard of the dance. Apparently, round about the time Filuzzi was created, women werent allowed to attend such establishments as dance halls without a chaperone, so the men developed the dance between themselves, and they still have competitions. 

Ive posted clips of this on here before, but for anybody who hasnt seen it, here it is. Melody on this one sounds as though it is being played on a harmonica, which is also very popular in Filuzzi music.

 

[Dingo40]

Hi Maugein,
Pretty impressive stuff! Thanks!
Come to think of it, much accordion music on vinyls is played without the bases, the bass being carried by the other members of the band.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Maugein,
Pretty impressive stuff! Thanks!
Come to think of it, much accordion music on vinyls is played without the bases, the bass being carried by the other members of the band.

Dingo,

I suppose that there will always be those with exceptional bass skills and/or the ability to play converters who would be reluctant to afford such music worthy of worthwhile study, although the techniques required to play some of the treble effects on the buttons take years to acquire. 

I listen to music from all over the world and most of it tends to be on the simple side of easy. 

In Azerbaijan some electric guitarists play with only strings 1,2,3,4, and 6, as the style they play doesn't require the 5th string. Also, chords don't really play any great part. No doubt there will be classical guitarists who would mark them down for not making full use of the instrument's potential, and none of the players will ever achieve international fame due to the parochial nature of the music.

However, it's music just the same. Do you know where I could get a two sided triangle, as it seems I'm into the more unusual side of music?

 

[Dingo40]

De Bra, Maugein,
I see, from a small badge ( attached to my Bugari Armando), when in “musette” mode, the relevant reeds are tuned to A438/440/442.
Where does this fit in the scheme of things in the accordion world?

 

[debra]

De Bra, Maugein,
I see, from a small badge ( attached to my Bugari Armando), when in “musette” mode, the relevant reeds are tuned to A438/440/442.
Where does this fit in the scheme of things in the accordion world?

What I am beginning to think now is that your accordion may be LMMM and not LMMH. To have the relevant reeds tuned to 4338/440/442 there need to be 3 M reeds. As this accordion model is a 4 reed instrument it then has to be LMMM, meaning no piccolo register.
You can thus have M, MM and then add an extra M using that "musette" mode.
When the tremolo deviates only 2 Hz it is a very mild tremolo, 6 or 7 sents up (and the same down).
You should be able to identify then that the tremolo is very mild. If musette really sounds truly wet that label no longer corresponds to the current tuning of the instrument.

 

[Dingo40]

De Bra, Maugein,
I see, from a small badge ( attached to my Bugari Armando), when in “musette” mode, the relevant reeds are tuned to A438/440/442.
Where does this fit in the scheme of things in the accordion world?

What I am beginning to think now is that your accordion may be LMMM and not LMMH. To have the relevant reeds tuned to 4338/440/442 there need to be 3 M reeds. As this accordion model is a 4 reed instrument it then has to be LMMM, meaning no piccolo register.
You can thus have M, MM and then add an extra M using that "musette" mode.
When the tremolo deviates only 2 Hz it is a very mild tremolo, 6 or 7 sents up (and the same down).
You should be able to identify then that the tremolo is very mild. If musette really sounds truly wet that label no longer corresponds to the current tuning of the instrument.

Paul, 
Thanks for responding!  This is all good information I didn’t have before.
Now, to make things more interesting, the instrument actually has a piccolo coupler, plus a horn and organ couplers, all of which require a “H” reed.
I get the impression it may actually be LMMMH in construction, with the two levers (one each end of the coupler row) activating or deactivating one of the “M” reeds.
When activated, this extra M reed operates in conjunction with all the other coupler settings.
Thus the violin  coupler together with the tremulo effect activated actually sounds more like most may consider to be the “traditional “ musette sound.
The “musette” coupler (without the ‘elective ‘ tremulo) sets two M reeds and the H reed ( thus: MMH) , but with the elective tremulo added seems (to me) to become MMMH.
I’m interested in any further comments you may have about it

 

[debra]

... Now, to make things more interesting, the instrument actually has a piccolo coupler, plus a horn and organ couplers, all of which require a “H” reed.
I get the impression it may actually be LMMMH in construction, with the two levers (one each end of the coupler row) activating or deactivating one of the “M” reeds.
When activated, this extra M reed operates in conjunction with all the other coupler settings.
Thus the violin  coupler together with the tremulo effect activated actually sounds more like most may consider to be the “traditional “ musette sound.
The “musette” coupler (without the ‘elective ‘ tremulo) sets two M reeds and the H reed ( thus: MMH) , but with the elective tremulo added seems (to me) to become MMMH.
I’m interested in any further comments you may have about it

Well, the instrument could be LMMMH as Bugari makes such an instrument, in the Artist Cassotto line: the 285/ARS. My wife both played a 285/ARS for several years (until we first switched to a convertor instrument and later to the button accordion). Ours had just regular registers, with M, MM and MMM, etc., no switches for just adding or removing the third M reed from other registers. I know others with such accordions as well, all with just regular registers. But the on/off type switches do exist, either to have a mute on/off (good for accordions with midi) or to turn a quint on/off.

 

[Dingo40]

Thanks Paul!