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Bugari evo Haria PA (41)

dunlustin

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Yesterday Jim D posted this as available in the US
Here is a UK update:
In stock £5900 - currently 20% discount = £4720.
Buttons (55): coming soon @ £6300 - no discount.
I left out the name of the shop ( no connection other than having shopped there ) - didn't want to appear to be advertising.
Doubtless others available.
 

debra

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I experienced the Bugari Evo at a Bugari "demo day" and was underwhelmed, considering that the electronics are 100% a Roland fr8x and the price is a lot higher. (I know you get a real accordion keyboard and better box for the extra money...) I asked whether they could make it sound just like a Bugari cassotto accordion and the polite answer was that "this was not the purpose of the instrument". In the meantime I believe that the real situation is that Bugari was not allowed to change the electronics to make the Evo sound differently from the Roland in this significant way. So alas, no sampled Bugari sound inside... and that rules it out for me.
 

John M

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So what is it about the Bugari Evo, real accordion keyboard, that makes it better than the keyboard on the FR-8X?

John M.
 
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I am guessing a ‘real’ accordion keyboard with similar key manufacture and something akin to the way accordion keys open flaps for the air so it has the same, or almost the same, feel as a real accordion vs the synth type of feel (spring loaded plastic keys) that you get on the Frx accordions. The roland felt strange to me at first but after a couple of hours I didn’t even notice it any more.
 

John M

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I am guessing a ‘real’ accordion keyboard with similar key manufacture and something akin to the way accordion keys open flaps for the air so it has the same, or almost the same, feel as a real accordion vs the synth type of feel (spring loaded plastic keys) that you get on the Frx accordions. The roland felt strange to me at first but after a couple of hours I didn’t even notice it any more.
Makes sense, although I wonder if trying to duplicate a real accordion keyboard, might be a mistake. In reality, the Roland Frx accordions are so much more that just an accordion and some of the instruments respond to the "touch attack" on the keyboard. I wonder if the Bugari has this needed keyboard sensitivity for other instruments such as the orchestral sounds. Personally, I notice the Roland keyboard to be "faster" than an acoustic accordion. Also, I am used to a Hammond Organ keyboard which is lightning fast.

John M.
 
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debra

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Makes sense, although I wonder if trying to duplicate a real accordion keyboard, might be a mistake. In reality, the Roland Frx accordions are so much more that just an accordion and some of the instruments respond to the "touch attack" on the keyboard. I wonder if the Bugari has this needed keyboard sensitivity for other instruments such as the orchestral sounds. Personally, I notice the Roland keyboard to be "faster" than an acoustic accordion. Also, I am used to a Hammond Organ keyboard which is lightning fast.

John M.
I cannot answer the technical aspect of why the "real accordion keyboard" makes a real difference.
But... the Roland is a digital synthesizer shaped like an accordion and with bellows pressure to control volume (and more), but the accordion sound does not seem to be significantly better developed than some other sounds (like organ for instance). What I was expecting from the Bugari is that the accordion sound would be the main thing and significantly better than the Roland approach, but sadly it appears they were not allowed to create such a difference from the FR8x. Oh well, let's hope the next generation of digital accordions will give us that significant improvement. Half a year ago there was the "Proxima" announcement and very brief demo (see proximaccordion.com) but nothing has appeared after that...
 

dunlustin

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I decided to post for 2 reasons:
- A fair number of posts are about non-acoustic playing – thought someone might be interested and nobody had responded to
( noticed? ) JimD’s post re: the Petosa availability.
But:
No apparent interest in the music – the UK demo does not light my fire but the Petosa YT has some interesting music in my opinion
Where’s the curiosity?
Queries:
Is this really the same instrument that Bugari took to Frankfurt 6 years ago?
Is a £400 price difference a deal buster?
Go on – take a chance – listen to the Petosa YT and share your thoughts on the music!

 

John M

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. . . the accordion sound does not seem to be significantly better developed than some other sounds (like organ for instance). . . .
I agree, a good acoustic accordion sounds better than the Roland accordion tones. One reason I purchased the Roland was when I heard the Organ sound and the duplication of all the settings (Drawbars, Vibrato, Chorus, 2nd & 3rd harmonic percussion, etc.) of a tonewheel organ. The other big reason for my purchase was the PORTABILITY of the Roland. I can now go to events and take my accordion with me where other people can enjoy the music. With my B3, people could only hear songs when they came to my house. I was not willing to move my 450 Lb B3 and 122 Leslie like some musicians still do.

For anyone that likes that great sound of the 122 Leslie, I am using the neo instruments Micro Vent 122. It is a Leslie 122 in a 2-1/2" X 4" box with a footswitch to switch the rotors from On/Off or On/Slow and vice versa. Also, there is control of the rate of the ramp up/ramp down of the rotors. Also "distance from the Leslie" where "close up" gives definite amplitude modulation of the sound and "far away" gives a definite frequency modulation of the sound, more like a "lush" vibrato. There is also a control to blend the amount of the direct (dry) input signal with the amount of modulated tremolo signal created by the Vent.

I am amazed at the quality of the duplication of the Micro Vent's Leslie sound. It is very difficult for me to notice any difference in the sound of my B3 & 122 Leslie compared to My Roland FR-8X & Micro Vent signal that is amplified using a Bose L1 Compact. I used identical Drawbar settings on the B3 and the Roland for a comparison. I positioned the Bose next to the Leslie 122.

John M.
 

debra

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I decided to post for 2 reasons:
- A fair number of posts are about non-acoustic playing – thought someone might be interested and nobody had responded to
( noticed? ) JimD’s post re: the Petosa availability.
But:
No apparent interest in the music – the UK demo does not light my fire but the Petosa YT has some interesting music in my opinion
Where’s the curiosity?
Queries:
Is this really the same instrument that Bugari took to Frankfurt 6 years ago?
Is a £400 price difference a deal buster?
Go on – take a chance – listen to the Petosa YT and share your thoughts on the music!
What this video illustrated (with the accordion sounds) mimics my recollection: when using tremolo the sound comes close to what I expect from an accordion. When using a "dry" register (L, M, LM...) there is no way I could mistake the sound for an acoustic accordion. The difference is more in the evolution of the dynamics while notes are played than the pure sound of a single note. It's hard to describe exactly what's wrong in the sound, but it just does not sound like a real accordion, even though thanks to the wooden case it's not quite as bad as the Roland FR8x.
Regarding the question whether it's still the same as what Bugari took to Frankfurt, I'm pretty sure it's still the exact same design. It will not be the actual instrument (serial number 1) that Bugari took to Frankfurt because that instrument was stolen during the Frankfurter Musik Messe (at the end of the show I believe). They were quite upset about it because the very first Evo they made was supposed to go on display at the factory.
 

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A few years ago, I was in Seattle and took a trip north from there. My first stop was Petosa Accordions to see the Bugari EVO. I can tell you that the case is wood, the treble keyboard is a standard wooden accordion keyboard with key rods and pallets, so air flow is more natural than what you'd expect from a digital accordion. The bass section was standard Roland, somewhat clicky, but highly configurable. If I were to choose the CBA version, I'd have a choice of six layouts, just like a Roland FR-8x. But unlike the Roland FR-8x, it cannot accept sound expansion sets, or communicate with the FR-8x Editor software. The wooden case is probably somewhat responsible for a less electronic sound than the FR-8x, but one dealer (Alex Chudolij of Music Magic Accordions USA) told me that the sound difference is also caused by the size and shape of the speaker enclosure, which in this case, is the space behind the grille. Battery placement in the instrument is a double-edged sword; on the one hand, it makes for better balance than the battery placement in the FR-8x, on the other hand, access to the battery (and the USB port, for that matter, is behind the back pad in the EVO. And yes, in my judgement, it's overpriced, particularly for the Luxury and DeLuxe trim levels.

As I understand it, electronic components in Italy are in short supply due to Covid. Although Petosa received a shipment of EVOs recently, many of them went to fill existing orders. Petosa should be getting more EVOs in the fall, as well as the first shipment of the all-Italian, all digital, wooden-cased, 37/96 Proxima Mia 37. If you want to concentrate on configurability, this will be a most interesting instrument.
 

JerryPH

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So what is it about the Bugari Evo, real accordion keyboard, that makes it better than the keyboard on the FR-8X?

John M.
Instead of being a lever that moves down against a pressure sensitive button to give you velocity keys, it has the basic layout of a real accordion keyboard. The result is that it feels faster, but has no ability to change settings or control orchestral volume via the keyboard. The end feel is akin to playing on a fair quality acoustic keyboard vs a big rubbery sponge of a keyboard with deep movement.

Initially this "bad keyboard" drove me nuts as I could not make fast runs with it... until I saw Cory Pesaturo play runs faster on his V-accordion than on any other "real" acoustic accordion he played that day (a good 6 other high quality accordions including Serenellinni, Bugari and others).

Today I can play fast runs on the Roland, but no, not as fast as on my acoustic Hohner Morino ( though its not 50% difference anymore. Thanks to adjusting playing technique, time and practice, its more like 10%)... but who cares, I love 'em both. :)
 

Alan Sharkis

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I experienced the Bugari Evo at a Bugari "demo day" and was underwhelmed, considering that the electronics are 100% a Roland fr8x and the price is a lot higher. (I know you get a real accordion keyboard and better box for the extra money...) I asked whether they could make it sound just like a Bugari cassotto accordion and the polite answer was that "this was not the purpose of the instrument". In the meantime I believe that the real situation is that Bugari was not allowed to change the electronics to make the Evo sound differently from the Roland in this significant way. So alas, no sampled Bugari sound inside... and that rules it out for me.
 
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Alan Sharkis

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Paul, I agree with you, but I must add a couple of comments:

IF Roland had allowed the EVO to accept expansion sound sets the way that the FR-8x can accept the Dallape sets, somebody would eventually have created a Bugari set and made it available for a price.

If Roland had allowed the EVO to connect with the FR-8x editor software, you or somebody else, given the time and patience needed, could create that Bugari sound set. I’m surprised that Bugari’s representative didn’t insist on that when the negotiations took place.

In my opinion, both Roland and Bugari missed the boat on those points, and I cannot understand why.
 
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debra

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Paul, I agree with you, but I must add a couple of comments:

IF Roland had allowed the EVO to accept expansion sound sets the way that the FR-8x can accept the Dallape sets, somebody would eventually have created a Bugari set and made it available for a price.

If Roland had allowed the EVO to connect with the FR-8x editor software, you or somebody else, given the time and patience needed, could create that Bugari sound set. I’m surprised that Bugari’s representative didn’t insist on that when the negotiations took place.

In my opinion, both Roland and Bugari missed the boat on those points, and I cannot understand why.
Couldn't agree more!
Let's hope that the upcoming Proxima digital accordion can deliver what people are waiting for. Their goal is to be better... let's see what they deliver.
 

Alan Sharkis

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Couldn't agree more!
Let's hope that the upcoming Proxima digital accordion can deliver what people are waiting for. Their goal is to be better... let's see what they deliver.
Have tou seen their Youtube video? It goes by pretty quickly, but it has a ton of information about the Proxima’s specs.

By the way, Proxima Digital Accordions has a website and a page on Youtube.
 

debra

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Have tou seen their Youtube video? It goes by pretty quickly, but it has a ton of information about the Proxima’s specs.

By the way, Proxima Digital Accordions has a website and a page on Youtube.
I have seen the video. The accordion sound is nice. The bellows handling wasn't mastered by the person giving the demo, so we don't know how smooth it can be. Specs look interesting. It's not a full size instrument, so it's competing mostly with the Roland FR4x. I'm anxiously awaiting more demos.
 

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. . . .If Roland had allowed the EVO to connect with the FR-8x editor software. . . . .

I would not purchase this accordion if there is no available PC Editor. I'm sure you can make the changes on the EVO/Proxima but if it's like the "on board" editor of the 8X, you will need a lot of time and patience. The PC Editor is MUCH easier. I use the editor on my FR-8X all the time. I purchased the Richard Noel Programs which are very good. What I use the editor for is to make small changes (fine tune) the programs. Some changes are just to adjust the volume and balance between the Treble and Bass Side, adjust Reverb, Attack, Release, etc. I know I can adjust the volume with the 8X knobs, but I don’t want to “fiddle” with them as I change to different instruments with the register switches. I have all the knobs in “center” position when I make adjustments for volume and reverb via the editing software. I also have my remote speaker set up so I can hear the changes as I make them. I find it is important to have the accordion set up as I am going to use it (i.e; on internal speakers or the external speaker system I am going to use). Getting the right accordion tone and balance between the Left Hand and Right Registers "just right" is important to me.

John M.
 
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Alan Sharkis

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I have a Roland FR-4x, so I know what you mean. Using the display to edit on a 4x is even more difficult than on an 8x, because many more choices are hidden in menus. The software editor is the way to go on both instruments.

Editing on the Proxima will be done iin an app that runs on an iPad (I don’t remember if there is a sinilar Android app, but I think there will be one.) The tablet and the accordion will connect via Bluetooth. Every chord button on the bass side can trigger up to five notes that you can choose via the app. Let’s say, for example, you want an F-sharp minor seventh? You can have it. All of the other editing functions you’re used to from the Roland software editor will also be available from that app.

Sound expansion packages, like the ones from Richard Noel, Dale Mathis, Tris Gour and Michael Bridge for Roland V-Accordions, have not yet been announced for Proxima accordions, As I understand it, if such packages are announced in the future, they will only be available through Proxima.

I sincerely hope that these accordions actually materialize in the fall as promised. I probably won’t buy one, but I admire what this company has done.
 

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Paul, I agree with you, but I must add a couple of comments:

IF Roland had allowed the EVO to accept expansion sound sets the way that the FR-8x can accept the Dallape sets, somebody would eventually have created a Bugari set and made it available for a price.

If Roland had allowed the EVO to connect with the FR-8x editor software, you or somebody else, given the time and patience needed, could create that Bugari sound set. I’m surprised that Bugari’s representative didn’t insist on that when the negotiations took place.

In my opinion, both Roland and Bugari missed the boat on those points, and I cannot understand why.
Have you looked at Michael Bridge’s offer of user programs for the instrument? you get them for no extra charge if you buy from Petosa. He’s also put up a couple of videos demonstrating them on his YouTube channel. If he can do them, then I presume others could too.

 

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