Beginner player - Parla Più Piano

[nikola]

Hi folks, first time sharing my playing here (or anywhere else public, really)!

I'm a beginner player, I started lessons just over a year ago starting from scratch as an adult beginner, mostly playing my teacher's arrangements. I've been having an absolute blast practicing, but still have so much to learn!

I occasionally record myself playing to share privately with my family and friends, here is a recent one I am reasonably happy with:

 

[JerryPH]

For a beginner, you do VERY well and I want to encourage you to keep going! Now, that said I am going to state one opinion, DO NOT take it personally, its an observation and not just something that you alone do.

Why do some accordionists think that their accordions act like violins? Shaking the hands makes no change in the sound... why do it?

 

[Ventura]

haha

for the dramatic effect..
one can feather the bellows in time with the finger wiggle
and make a nice little waveform when you are doing something delicate..
showmanship..
sometimes with accordion we do need to clarify something or point
to it somehow so it doesn't get lost in the "wizardry" of the complexity,
especially when mixing non-accordion sounds with acoustic

so i admit to doing the violin shuffle and other similar indicator
motions on occasion, like a high arc on a pause to come back down
on some isolated but dramatically timed note, or removing my hand
from the keyboard entirely during a melody break

Joe likes to reverse fan the bellows on his Zupan for the visual
when he plays something intense.. dunno that it makes any change in the
sound but it does add emphasis

we can hide shift changes with sleight of hand, or make them
extra obvious so the audience might be led into the next tone..

well you made me think about it

 

[nikola]

Why do some accordionists think that their accordions act like violins? Shaking the hands makes no change in the sound... why do it?

Haha, it might not do anything but it feels right
I don't even notice myself doing it, I'm probably subconsciously copying my teacher's more showy mannerisms.

 

[dak]

A nosy question: do you play an acoustic instrument as well? I ask because it looks like the accordion takes more air when you press the bass buttons, and a Roland does not do that. So the bass onset makes the melody get an accent, one thing where technique/behavior on an acoustic instrument and a Roland differ.

On the main theme you have an even articulation that sort of puts an accent on every note, offsetting it. That makes an impression like someone speaking every word or syllable separately. Try feeling the overall phrasing of the melody lines as if you were singing them. Try to listen to your recollection of the melody line: is it as even as what you are playing? Or does it take liberties?

Make no mistake: it is good to be able to deliver consistent articulation, to have articulation be deliberate and not an accident. But at the same time, this is a major tool for expressiveness, and using it for creating an overarching line of phrasing is something that can make the melody line more compelling (keeping the "rhythm section" stable, in contrast, helps to avoid colliding messages when it is mostly of harmonic/rhythmic function instead of carrying melodic content).

Good work!

 

[dak]

Why do some accordionists think that their accordions act like violins? Shaking the hands makes no change in the sound... why do it?

I beg to differ: it does make a change in the sound, a very subtle variation of volume (due to the effect on bellows pressure) that can enliven a note. Of course, while looking somewhat similar to a violin vibrato, the audible effect is a completely different one. A less subtle variation with a larger effect is waving the fingers of your bass hand in a fanning motion, but since that requires the bass hand to not be fingering buttons at the same time, it is more of an ensemble technique when not using the bass.

 

[JerryPH]

The left hand yes (wrist waving, not so much fingers waving), that is bellows control and is a serious technique, but fingers rocking up and down vertically in violin-esque movements makes absolutely no difference as long as the fingers don't lift off the keyboard or don't push the keys hard enough to rock the entire accordion, nope it won't make any sonic change as the mechanics of the keys/rods are all unmoving and just looks a bit odd (even on a v-accordion, where you *can* do pressure sensitive variations)... but that is just me, everyone is free to do as they wish of course, and a special mention that Nikola took it in the exact spirit with which I meant it... Kudos!

 

[nikola]

A nosy question: do you play an acoustic instrument as well? I ask because it looks like the accordion takes more air when you press the bass buttons, and a Roland does not do that. So the bass onset makes the melody get an accent, one thing where technique/behavior on an acoustic instrument and a Roland differ.

On the main theme you have an even articulation that sort of puts an accent on every note, offsetting it. That makes an impression like someone speaking every word or syllable separately. Try feeling the overall phrasing of the melody lines as if you were singing them. Try to listen to your recollection of the melody line: is it as even as what you are playing? Or does it take liberties?

Make no mistake: it is good to be able to deliver consistent articulation, to have articulation be deliberate and not an accident. But at the same time, this is a major tool for expressiveness, and using it for creating an overarching line of phrasing is something that can make the melody line more compelling (keeping the "rhythm section" stable, in contrast, helps to avoid colliding messages when it is mostly of harmonic/rhythmic function instead of carrying melodic content).

Good work!

Thank you for the kind words and feedback!
I do play an acoustic as well, but not nearly as often as I play on the Roland -- the vast majority of my practice time is early in the morning (hence the sunrise behind me in the video) and my apartment neighbours would not appreciate my practice at 7am I don't think

I play acoustic in my in-person weekly lessons, and I have a small Camillo stroller for weekend practice. I am trying to put as much focus on bellows and bass technique as possible during the time with my teacher to try and avoid building too many bad habits with the Roland. Some techniques my teacher is emphasizing (eg pressing basses in steadily or only partially to have less bounce) don't give the same feedback and feel on the digital bass, and I know that is a shortcoming to keep working on...

I hear what you mean about articulation of my phrasing, and I definitely hear it when comparing my playing to my teacher's... I still have a long way to go, I struggle to balance playing deliberately, with thoughtful phrasing, with expressive dynamics, and with deliberate bass articulation all at the same time. Doing even two of those at once is a challenge, but I'm slooooowly getting there.

 

[dak]

I hear what you mean about articulation of my phrasing, and I definitely hear it when comparing my playing to my teacher's... I still have a long way to go, I struggle to balance playing deliberately, with thoughtful phrasing, with expressive dynamics, and with deliberate bass articulation all at the same time. Doing even two of those at once is a challenge, but I'm slooooowly getting there.

Yes, that's expected: one can actively focus on two things or so at most: the rest has to run on autopilot, and training the autopilot is a matter of lots of repetition and sleeping over it until it becomes ingrained as "muscle memory".

It works in the other direction as well: if you've learnt to do everything right automatically, you can only focus on doing two things bad or wrong deliberately at the same time as well. When the riding school teacher I am still living with needed to check out how a horse would behave under a beginner, it was hopeless for her to try "being a beginner" with regard to balance and other aids: she couldn't get enough things wrong or incoherent at the same time. I could be of service there.

 

[dak]

I beg to differ: it does make a change in the sound, a very subtle variation of volume (due to the effect on bellows pressure) that can enliven a note. Of course, while looking somewhat similar to a violin vibrato, the audible effect is a completely different one. A less subtle variation with a larger effect is waving the fingers of your bass hand in a fanning motion, but since that requires the bass hand to not be fingering buttons at the same time, it is more of an ensemble technique when not using the bass.

The left hand yes (wrist waving, not so much fingers waving), that is bellows control and is a serious technique, but fingers rocking up and down vertically in violin-esque movements makes absolutely no difference as long as the fingers don't lift off the keyboard or don't push the keys hard enough to rock the entire accordion, nope it won't make any sonic change as the mechanics of the keys/rods are all unmoving and just looks a bit odd (even on a v-accordion, where you *can* do pressure sensitive variations)... but that is just me, everyone is free to do as they wish of course, and a special mention that Nikola took it in the exact spirit with which I meant it... Kudos!

To wit: can you hear the difference between the notes with and without "vibrato" here?

 

[JerryPH]

Now show me on the v-accordion.

 

[dak]

Now show me on the v-accordion.

If you want to… That works perfectly well with the bellows pressure sensitivity of a V-accordion. What doesn't work is gracefully releasing the bass buttons. The darn thing just hacks off the bass/chord notes at some point instead of fading them out according to gradually decreased depression depth.

 

[JerryPH]

"A" for effort, It's not the same thing, on V-accordion it's either not there at all or bellows air fluctuations, and if you listen to 99% of all people that do it on acoustic, it does absolutely nothing to the sound. I wonder what the long term damage on the parts would be, I'd never do that on my Gola or Morino PA's

That said, I see AND hear what you did on the Morino, for that you have convinced me that there can be some sonic traits. It's not the odd violin-esque movement, but this pushing of the keys sideways so the palettes shift slightly back and forth over the openings. All I can hear in my head is "ouch, that cannot be good for the mechanics" in my mind.

 

[dak]

"A" for effort, It's not the same thing, on V-accordion it's either not there at all or bellows air fluctuations,

It's bellows air fluctuations on either one.

and if you listen to 99% of all people that do it on acoustic, it does absolutely nothing to the sound.

It's most audible on single reed registrations at modest volume.

I wonder what the long term damage on the parts would be, I'd never do that on my Gola or Morino PA's

That said, I see AND hear what you did on the Morino, for that you have convinced me that there can be some sonic traits. It's not the odd violin-esque movement, but this pushing of the keys sideways so the palettes shift slightly back and forth over the openings.

It's not really pushing the keys/buttons sideways but using the pressed-down button as a pivoting point for the rocking motion. You could just pin down the key in some other manner and do the "vibrato" on the case instead. The pallets don't come into play here: with the buttons pressed down completely, any slight movement would not affect the audible result because of the pallet being wide open.

All I can hear in my head is "ouch, that cannot be good for the mechanics" in my mind.

I have an Excelsior with significantly crooked key levers at both ends of the keyboard, and that makes the pressed down buttons on lowest and highest notes a wobbly affair. It would probably not feel good with that one. On the Morino, all key levers are straight and a pressed-down button is solid (and the felts below the buttons press on the plate below and further stop any sideway motion). On the FR-1b, the buttons are kind of wobbly but not so when pressed down. So the mechanics don't get to see a lot.

I don't have the comparison with a PA keyboard.

 

[Pipemajor]

To wit: can you hear the difference between the notes with and without "vibrato" here?

Well I listened to it with my eyes closed and I honestly couldn't tell any difference.
It could be my ancient ears aren't up to it anymore, but I wonder if waving your finger causes minute bellows fluctuations so it is the bellows rather than the key action

 

[dak]

Well I listened to it with my eyes closed and I honestly couldn't tell any difference.
It could be my ancient ears aren't up to it anymore, but I wonder if waving your finger causes minute bellows fluctuations so it is the bellows rather than the key action

Of course that is what happens. It's not like I haven't already explained this before even making the first video:

a very subtle variation of volume (due to the effect on bellows pressure) that can enliven a note.

Or after making the last video:

It's not really pushing the keys/buttons sideways but using the pressed-down button as a pivoting point for the rocking motion. You could just pin down the key in some other manner and do the "vibrato" on the case instead.

 

[micahcowan]

It's not really pushing the keys/buttons sideways but using the pressed-down button as a pivoting point for the rocking motion. You could just pin down the key in some other manner and do the "vibrato" on the case instead. The pallets don't come into play here: with the buttons pressed down completely, any slight movement would not affect the audible result because of the pallet being wide open.

To further emphasize this point: when I've done it on my instruments, the key doesn't slide or move one jot. It's nothing whatever to do with the key action - as dak says, it's entirely bellows. The rocking movement allows a very fine-grained control over a relatively subtle vibrato. Not necessarily even all that subtle (especially in single-reed). The "side to side" just helps you "deflect" (waste?) some of the motion's energy, since it's hard to make "tiny" vibratos if you're directing the energy directly into the bellows. It's also useful for medium-sized vibrato when the bass hand is occupied playing (so can't shake), and a leg shake would be too strong an effect.

The similar motion on a violin of course produces vibrato variations in the pitch, but the motion in an accordion produces vibrato variations in the volume (as the only sonoric impact is from the movement's effect on the bellows).

 

[micahcowan]

Oh, and forgot to mention: the impact can be considerably stronger on a compact instrument (the energy/shake being distributed across significantly smaller bellows). Likewise for other bellows-fluctuation techniques, which means that they're more likely to be "too strong" an effect for what you're going for, making the finger-rock more attractive in more situations.

I think I manage the effect much easier on close than on open (may just be a matter of my skill level).

 

[micahcowan]

An amusing related anecdote: my piano professor at university (my major was piano) related to me how some pianist insisted that you could subtly effect the tone by shaking your finger on the depressed key (just as we're discussing for accordion and violin) - that the movement travels along the hammer assembly and vibrates the string.

Uh, how exactly does that work, when the hammer is not in contact with the string in any way, after the initial attack? I think we can all agree that that one is pure overactive imagination!

(This technique is of course absolutely viable, and common, on an electronic keyboard with aftertouch.)

 

[dak]

An amusing related anecdote: my piano professor at university (my major was piano) related to me how some pianist insisted that you could subtly effect the tone by shaking your finger on the depressed key (just as we're discussing for accordion and violin) - that the movement travels along the hammer assembly and vibrates the string.

Uh, how exactly does that work, when the hammer is not in contact with the string in any way, after the initial attack? I think we can all agree that that one is pure overactive imagination!

It changes the contact between steel frame and resonance frame. Again, the key is just a convenient contact point and the key action itself is irrelevant. Probably depends a whole lot on the instrument in question whether there is a tangible effect and to what degree.

(This technique is of course absolutely viable, and common, on an electronic keyboard with aftertouch.)

Sure, but that's cheating...