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Bass register switches "repeated" on Excelsior

FireSpirit

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Hello guys!
I have an Excelsior Symphony (4/6 reeds, six in basses), which has 7 switches in the basses, three of which are repeated for the master and the rest is very high-pitched sound (in which, I find useless and I don't use)

My question is: Is there a way to modify the bass switches to have more options? If so, is it "ok" to do this or better not to modify the project?
This is a video of me, playing the accordion (to identify this model, idk). Realize that there are 7 switches in the basses.

 
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debra

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I'm pretty sure the bass registers are not supposed to work like that. There could be a slide (or more than one) that isn't working. A closer inspection of the bass side is needed to diagnose the problem.
 

Sebastian Bravo

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i modified many 7 switches to work from bassier sounds at the bottom, master in center, and them higher pitched in the top. Your setup reminds me of the hohner gola, which also had 6 reeds (1-2-3-3-4-5 in octaves) and the registers were strange pretty strange...
 

FireSpirit

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Hello again!

I recorded a video showing the registers. I noticed an error in my post, there are two not high pitched register. However, in total there are five different registers. Is there another "register" besides those that are present in current accordions?

 

Scuromondo

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The number of register switches doesn’t really have anything to do with how current the accordion is. In general it depends on how full-featured the accordion is. Most ‘professional’ accordions have 7 register switches (though many Excelsiors have only 6) but beginner accordions generally have none and other accordions can pretty much have anything in between.

Register selection on the Stradella bass side is more complex (less straightforward) than on the keyboard side, with each switch selecting one combination of reed octaves for the bass/counterbass buttons while simultaneously applying a different combination of octaves to the chord buttons. The effect can be somewhat more subtle than on the treble side, and from your recording it actually sounds to me like your switches are probably working more-or-less normally. (But there are more experienced players on here whose judgment you should trust ahead of mine!)

Your recording did not include the two switches you think are “duplicates.” I would have liked to hear them. I have never seen an accordion with duplicate switches on the bass side.
 
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Dingo40

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"I have never seen an accordion with duplicate switches on the bass side."
Same here!🙂
 

FireSpirit

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The number of register switches doesn’t really have anything to do with how current the accordion is. In general it depends on how full-featured the accordion is. Most ‘professional’ accordions have 7 register switches (though many Excelsiors have only 6) but beginner accordions generally have none and other accordions can pretty much have anything in between.

Register selection on the Stradella bass side is more complex (less straightforward) than on the keyboard side, with each switch selecting one combination of reed octaves for the bass/counterbass buttons while simultaneously applying a different combination of octaves to the chord buttons. The effect can be somewhat more subtle than on the treble side, and from your recording it actually sounds to me like your switches are probably working more-or-less normally. (But there are more experienced players on here whose judgment you should trust ahead of mine!)

Your recording did not include the two switches you think are “duplicates.” I would have liked to hear them. I have never seen an accordion with duplicate switches on the bass side.
Hello, Scuromondo! Thanks for your reply.

I record another video. Note that if I press the "master" button, the other two have no "weight" (I don't know how to express it in English, however, they are "soft"). I have to press another button other than these so that they have "weight". The same thing if I press the repeated register and try to press the Master, it becomes "soft" and I need to press another button for it to have a "weight" (weight = to have the feeling of really changing register)
 

Tom

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Hi Fire, Looks like something is wrong with your sliders, as Paul said. You might have to open the accordion and look inside. Good luck!
 
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Dingo40

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Hmm, they definitely do appear to be and to sound like repeat "master" bass switches.
Well, if some manufacturers can use "dummy " treble switches as a sales gimmick, why can't others do the same with bass couplers?🤔
It's all about the image!🙂
 

JIM D.

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Some of the sliders in your bass machine are not connected or have become disconnected. Operating the shift machine with
the reed blocks removed should give you a clue.
 

FireSpirit

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Hello guys! I opened the accordion and I record the shift machine without reed blocks. (unfortunately, a valve came out and I don’t even know how to glue hahaha)

 

Dingo40

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Well, Fire Spirit, I'm no expert, but to my "lay" eye, everything seems to function as though you do, indeed, have three master coupler switches, as indicated previously!🙂
Bad luck about the valve 😐. but it could have been much worse 🙂
 

debra

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Baa registers seem to work fine. You have two repeat master switches, so you are then left with 5 registers, which is not all that uncommon.
The trouble with the Stradella bass system is that the base notes open pallets for the 2 lowest octaves and for the 4 higher octaves (which are not really 4 higher octaves as there are some shifted middle rows to "hide" the octave jump). The chord buttons only open the 4 higher octaves. In order for the chords to actually play one of the reed banks of the higher octaves must always be open, meaning that this bank also plays with the base notes. There is no way to have the base notes use only the two lowest banks because that would mean you get no chords to play at all. (I once modified an accordion to do just that, in order to get a lower sounding octave of base notes and no chords.
So if you were hoping to get base notes that are just really low, and combine them with higher (or less high) sounding chords, you are out of luck on all accordions with just Stradella bass. Accordions with convertor work differently and there anything goes.
 

Scuromondo

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Baa registers seem to work fine. You have two repeat master switches, so you are then left with 5 registers, which is not all that uncommon.
The trouble with the Stradella bass system is that the base notes open pallets for the 2 lowest octaves and for the 4 higher octaves (which are not really 4 higher octaves as there are some shifted middle rows to "hide" the octave jump). The chord buttons only open the 4 higher octaves. In order for the chords to actually play one of the reed banks of the higher octaves must always be open, meaning that this bank also plays with the base notes. There is no way to have the base notes use only the two lowest banks because that would mean you get no chords to play at all. (I once modified an accordion to do just that, in order to get a lower sounding octave of base notes and no chords.
So if you were hoping to get base notes that are just really low, and combine them with higher (or less high) sounding chords, you are out of luck on all accordions with just Stradella bass. Accordions with convertor work differently and there anything goes.
Do you think the two repeated Master switches are intended to be repeats by design, or that there are bad linkages/sliders somewhere?
 

FireSpirit

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Baa registers seem to work fine. You have two repeat master switches, so you are then left with 5 registers, which is not all that uncommon.
The trouble with the Stradella bass system is that the base notes open pallets for the 2 lowest octaves and for the 4 higher octaves (which are not really 4 higher octaves as there are some shifted middle rows to "hide" the octave jump). The chord buttons only open the 4 higher octaves. In order for the chords to actually play one of the reed banks of the higher octaves must always be open, meaning that this bank also plays with the base notes. There is no way to have the base notes use only the two lowest banks because that would mean you get no chords to play at all. (I once modified an accordion to do just that, in order to get a lower sounding octave of base notes and no chords.
So if you were hoping to get base notes that are just really low, and combine them with higher (or less high) sounding chords, you are out of luck on all accordions with just Stradella bass. Accordions with convertor work differently and there anything goes.
Thanks for your reply!

I have a doubt, new models like Piatanesi 4S that have 7 or more registers in the basses, there is no way to make them equal to Piatanesi? What is the difference to my register basses?

(About the valve that came out, can I stick it again? What glue do I use?)
 
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Ventura

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it is not glue, it is wax

and if one fell out that means the wax is all old and dried and cracked and
many others are leaking and will also fall out with a little bump

you need to take your Excelsior to Sebastian and have him look at it
and advise you and maybe repair it for you

bring a Pizza when you go to his shop
 

debra

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Thanks for your reply!

I have a doubt, new models like Piatanesi 4S that have 7 or more registers in the basses, there is no way to make them equal to Piatanesi? What is the difference to my register basses?

(About the valve that came out, can I stick it again? What glue do I use?)
You can have 7 different bass registers, and a skilled repairer can certainly change the two master-repeats into new registers.
 

Sebastian Bravo

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I think those repeaded master switches could be modified to make a 3 middle reed switch, and a 4 reed master switch. I had a Pigini (Ellegaard Special) with 2 repeated switches (master and tenor) and i modified them to hide the jump from pedal to notes. in the freebass. So, it's possible to modify them, you need to cut some of those things marked in the aluminum part that moves when the switch press. Be sure to select the correct mechanism and cut the correct part. Now that switch will make a different choice of reeds open.
 

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FireSpirit

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Thanks for the answers.
What are the bass registers for a new professional accordion? These are? I tried to compare it with my registers (Comparing with this image) and it was not equal to any othe than the master. Do my registers have a "name"?
lily-9183dce7.png
 

Scuromondo

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Thanks for the answers.
What are the bass registers for a new professional accordion? These are? I tried to compare it with my registers (Comparing with this image) and it was not equal to any othe than the master. Do my registers have a "name"?
lily-9183dce7.png
The dot on the bottom refers to the “bass” reed set, the next one up is “tenor,” then “alto,” then “soprano.”

The fifth reed set “contralto” is generally shown between tenor and alto. Your drawing shows the contralto reed at the top, like it is another set of soprano reeds; I have never seen this before.

When selected, the bass and tenor reed sets are applied only to the bass and counter-bass buttons. The other reed sets may be applied to the chord buttons as well as the bass and counter-bass buttons

...Anyway, that’s my understanding of how it is supposed to work. 🙂 Please wait for one of the other more experienced members to verify that it is correct
 
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