Another notation question

[Dingo40]

I notice some music has the following characteristics.
For example, a waltz in 3/4 time, in a measure, has each 1/4 note beat divided into two 1/8 notes (giving a total of six 1/8 notes to the measure).
In each pair, the eighth notes are connected by a short tie and each note of the pair has a different tonal value to the other: the overall effect is that of a short trill.
My question is, is that how it is played, like a slow legato trill, or in some other way, eg a series of short “hops”?

 

[JeffJetton]

Im not 100% sure what you mean, but a tie that is tying together notes off different pitches is called a slur. It is an indication that the notes under the slur should be played legato, or connected, similar to how you might sing a single word made up of multiple notes.

You should avoid a bellows change during a slur, obviously.

It does not mean you should trill the notes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slur_(music)

 

[Dingo40]

Thanks for responding, Jeff,<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI>
There is not an overarching slur over all the notes in the measure, but a set of three short ones, joining the first and second note, the third and fourth, and the fifth and sixth<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI>

 

[jozz]

the notes that are "tied" should be played connected/legato, between them you pause (might pull your finger of the keys)

 

[Dingo40]

Thanks, Jazz!<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI>
This sounds right.
You might perhaps stress the first note and roll off the second, giving something of a hopping effect from pair to pair?

 

[jozz]

you might, but the first notes of the pairs will be naturally accented because you will give them more attack most lilkely

let your creative interpretation go wild {}

 

[george garside]

in simple terms play quickly with no gaps between them . and experiment with the amount of emphasis you give to the first note . This may be easiest if you do it on the 'push' of the bellwos so that a very short/quick increase in bellwos pressure is used to highlight the first note if that is what you decide sounds best.

You could also try simply playing the first note for the duration of the 3 to see what it sounds like. To me any sort of 'triplet' can be played as a single note or any single note as a triplet the choice being entirely up to the individual player unless of course you prefer to adhere to the 'as writ' version throughout the proceedings.

in folk/trad music such alterations/ arrangements are fairly normal and many trad tunes in written form come in Heinz 57 verieties¬

george

 

[Anyanka]

This may seem obvious... but are you sure it's a waltz? I used to assume that everything in 3/4 was a waltz, until I learned about French dancing, and specifically mazurkas. They have a different emphasis to match the dance step; it's quite subtle.

 

[JEBrown]

Sounds like an indication of articulation to me - play each pair of notes legato / smooth, but shorten the second in each pair to allow a small break in the sound - all while maintaining the overall tempo.

 

[Glenn]

I think without seeing some notation that it is indeed to give emphasis on the leading note of the quaver pair. Think of it as One-and-Two-and-Three-and. Whatever you play make it musical. Another way to approach it is to play straight notes until you play the passage comfortably then start to put the emphasis in subtly. Good luck!


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[JeffJetton]

Thanks for responding, Jeff,<EMOJI seq=1f642>?</EMOJI>
There is not an overarching slur over all the notes in the measure, but a set of three short ones, joining the first and second note, the third and fourth, and the fifth and sixth<EMOJI seq=1f642>?</EMOJI>

Thats still a slur even if its only two notes. (Check out the image in the upper-right of the wikipedia article I linked to.)

But the best solution here would be for you to scan or take a photo of the passage in question for us to look at.

 

[Dingo40]

Jeff, you’re right: “slur” is the correct term<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f44d">?</EMOJI>
I’d love to send a visual of what I’m on about, but only having an iPhone and very little internet savvy, am limited to a verbal description<EMOJI seq="1f615">?</EMOJI>
Now, I’ve thought of another, simpler example :
In 4/4 time(a polka) a measure (in the right hand) has four crotchets, say, g c g c.
The first pair is connected by a short slur, the second by another short slur.
So: how is it meant to be played?
My guess would be a stress and full value on the first note of each pair with a smooth connect to the second note in each pair which is unstressed and played as a dotted quaver. This would result in a kind of hopping effect.
Would that be right?

 

[Glenn]

If a dotted quaver were intended then I guess a dotted quaver could have been used. WhAt one should not forget is that musical notation is only an approximation of the intended music. It is not a computer program. We’ve all heard computer generated music read straight from notation and although very clever it lacks any musicality whatsoever. Thus do what is musical and try keeping the bound notes together as a musical group. The hopping idea probably goes some ways towards describing the effect but one may interpret a hop in so many different ways. Without context it would be difficult to describe.

 

[Dingo40]

Thanks, Glenn, and everyone who replied: you’ve all given me a good deal of good information to process an apply<EMOJI seq="1f642">?</EMOJI><EMOJI seq="1f44d">?</EMOJI>!

 

[Dingo40]

I came across a definitive answer to my question!<EMOJI seq=1f642>?</EMOJI>
The musical figure I was on about is called “the two note slur”, and the performing technique is the “drop roll”.
It is elucidated here: <YOUTUBE id=nsh2zhuRpYw url=></YOUTUBE>

 

[Glenn]

Might work well on the piano but of course the accordion is not touch sensitive. Thus you will have to interpret the musicality of these two note slurs.
By the way, in my opinion a “tie” is the ultimate slur. You cannot get more legato than not lifting your finger at all.


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[JeffJetton]

Jeff, you’re right: “slur” is the correct term<EMOJI seq=1f642>?</EMOJI><EMOJI seq=1f44d>?</EMOJI>
I’d love to send a visual of what I’m on about, but only having an iPhone and very little internet savvy, am limited to a verbal description<EMOJI seq=1f615>?</EMOJI>
Now, I’ve thought of another, simpler example :
In 4/4 time(a polka) a measure (in the right hand) has four crotchets, say, g c g c.
The first pair is connected by a short slur, the second by another short slur.
So: how is it meant to be played?
My guess would be a stress and full value on the first note of each pair with a smooth connect to the second note in each pair which is unstressed and played as a dotted quaver. This would result in a kind of hopping effect.
Would that be right?

At a certain point, questions of musical interpretation became closer to opinion than fact. Ill preface this post by saying that this might be one of those cases.

With that in mind, from my standpoint, the slur simply means to play the slurred notes in a very connected, legato way. It doesnt really imply too much about the dynamics or lengths of the two notes.

If they explicitly wanted you to stress the first note, they wouldve put something like an accent mark (bird beak) on it, which you can see on the fourth note below. And if they explicitly wanted to you make the second note noticeably shorter than written, they wouldve put something like a staccato mark on it (the dot over the first note below).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...tion_accents1.png/440px-Notation_accents1.png>

But if they did neither, and its simply a slur, then all you have to do it play the two notes legato. Although your idea of a hopping sound isnt too far off the mark.

Although, again, I tend to think of it more in terms of singing. If the lyrics to your four-note example were, say, big fat gray cats, then that would be unslurred. Imagine how you would sing that... each word/syllable gets a distinct note.

But if the lyrics were bi-g ca-ts--that is, the word big taking up the first two notes, and cats taking up the last two notes--that would be more like the two groups of two slurred notes in your example. You would sing the first two pitches with one single, connected word, then theres be a teensy bit of a separation and youd sing the last two pitches with another single, connected word.

 

[losthobos]

This may seem obvious... but are you sure its a waltz? I used to assume that everything in 3/4 was a waltz, until I learned about French dancing, and specifically mazurkas. They have a different emphasis to match the dance step; its quite subtle.

Good call Anyanka.....any chance you can elaborate....Ive often tried to consider the differences between a waltz, mazurka, java etc....thanks

 

[Anyanka]

This may seem obvious... but are you sure its a waltz? I used to assume that everything in 3/4 was a waltz, until I learned about French dancing, and specifically mazurkas. They have a different emphasis to match the dance step; its quite subtle.

Good call Anyanka.....any chance you can elaborate....Ive often tried to consider the differences between a waltz, mazurka, java etc....thanks

Im no expert, still learning lots myself... In order to understand the differences, one needs to watch (or ideally dance) the dances in question - heres a simple instruction video for the French mazurka. Theres a little hop which needs the musician to provide lift, so the rhythm is more subtle than the straight ONE two three ONE two three of the waltz. Im actually finding it very difficult to nail down a definitive technical explanation: once you know the dance, you can feel if a tune is one or the other (although I have seen people mazurka to a waltz, and waltz to a bourree!)

 

[Anyanka]

Thanks, Glenn, and everyone who replied: you’ve all given me a good deal of good information to process an apply<EMOJI seq=1f642>?</EMOJI><EMOJI seq=1f44d>?</EMOJI>!

What is the name of your tune with the slurs?