Accordion in Brazil with strange bass layout

[maugein96]

Been looking at various stuff concerning accordions in Brazil, and came across this clip on You Tube that intrigued me. Here is a youngster doing his best with a Forro tune. Has anybody ever seen a bass arrangement like his? Looks like it is a Stradella with free bass on the inside three rows. With hands and fingers the size of mine there is absolutely no way on this earth I could reach those three inside rows, never mind the bass couplers, assuming thats what the weird knobs and buttons are next to the bass buttons.

Ive found that there are a lot of accordion makes I have never heard of in Brazil, although there are a lot of Italian mainstream brands including this Giulietti with not so mainstream basses.

 

[JIM D.]

He is playing a 1960s Giulietti (made by Zero Sette) with a Bassetti bass. ----

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-bass_system

 

[maugein96]

Thanks Jim. I'd heard of bassetti, but never actually seen it. Had a good idea you'd I.D. it right away.

9 rows of bass buttons and I struggle with 5 or 6. Gulp!

Seems to have been more popular in the Americas than it was here in Europe, from what I've since read.

 

[debra]

This is also known as MIII and it was used on the immensely popular Hohner Morino VI, the Hohner Gola, the Hohner Artiste X, and I have also seen it on other accordions. Before the convertor became popular this was the main method for getting melody bass.
This was certainly popular in Europe. Nothing specific for Brazil.

 

[maugein96]

The article I read earlier today said the bassetti bass was made popular in the USA by Giulietti, with no mention of Europe. As usual a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. I automatically assumed that it was a system specifically designed for the US market, as those Hohner models you mention don't seem to have hit the music stores in Scotland, and I had never seen one before.

Thanks Paul, wish I had your knowledge instead of guessing my way through what is becoming an ever increasing learning curve about all things accordion. I've spent too many years blinkered in the world of the Gauloises, berets, vin rouge, and accordion players with only 3 or 4 fingers working on their right hands. Time I broadened my outlook, as there is so much more out there.

Don't think I'll be so adventurous as to try a bassetti though, unless I can find a surgeon who can double the length of the fingers on my left hand!

 

[debra]

...
Don't think I'll be so adventurous as to try a bassetti though, unless I can find a surgeon who can double the length of the fingers on my left hand!

It's not so bad. You don't need huge hands to play bassetti. If you look for Mie Miki videos for instance you can see that you do not need to be a giant to use MIII.
I have what I think are average hands and have no problems with the MIII on my Hohner. I don't use it much as I prefer a convertor.

 

[JerryPH]

Looks like it is a Stradella with free bass on the inside three rows.

Yup, and I am quite familiar with this arrangement of Free Bass, it is what my accordion has.

http://syner-g.asuscomm.com/mymusic/files/185bass.jpg>

It is not the easiest to play (mostly because it is a heavy instrument, something that doesnt bother me at all), but I find a converter setup near impossible to play. On this accordion, one really needs to push the hand deeper (more so because it is a double Cassotto instrument), and it helps if you wear a glove to make moving the arm up and down faster with less friction.

Still, its quite doable and I find the system better than converter because I can move back and forth between the Stradella and Free Bass systems without needing to press any buttons.

 

[maugein96]

Don't know how you guys manage all that extra bass stuff. It must take a long time to learn. Double cassotto also sounds like very hard work, but I suppose that's just the way it is.

Are the shoulder straps on that big Hohner reinforced with wire cables, Jerry? Reckon I'd need a periscope to see over the top of it, and I'm just under 6 foot tall!

 

[Mike K]

I have an opportunity to buy a Giulietti similar to this with the 3 additional rows of free bass. I tried playing it and it was awkward for me. I have a converter with the partial free bass as part of the 6 rows. Just opinions....what do you think a Giulietti like this would be worth? They were asking $2000.

I do not have a picture of it but the part covering the treble mechanism looked different than the Giulietti I own or was pictured here. Looked kind of strange to me since it was different than any I have seen on line or in person. Appeared to be the real thing though. Probably from the 60s or 70s.

Not sure if they still have it, I am still considering it but not sure what I would do with two.

 

[maugein96]

Mike,

Does it look like the one in the You Tube clip in my OP?

No idea about US prices, but $2000 would be a steal for a box like that in the UK, always assuming it's in good condition.

 

[JerryPH]

Brazil being a tropical hot very humid environment, unless that accordion was lovingly cared for and kept in a cool humidified environment, chances are not very high that it will be in good condition, especially considering the age.

 

[Mike K]

Not exactly, it was 2 months or more ago since I saw it. The grill looked different. The one in the YouTube video looks like mine and what I am used to. The grill on this one was different, cannot remember exactly what though. The left hand looked the same though. I felt it was good price but just getting back into it, I did not really want to spend the money on a second one, when one sat around for many years. I did pick up a student size Lyra for $100 that is in good shape. Very similar to the one I learned on before I had the Giulietti.

I might break down and try to buy it, if it is still available after the Holidays. It is someone in the local accordion club. The members are mostly beginners to intermediate and no one knows what a free bass is. The person selling it is a 60ish lady for whom it is too heavy. She has several other accordions.

 

[Mike K]

Not exactly, it was 2 months or more ago since I saw it. The grill looked different. The one in the YouTube video looks like mine and what I am used to. The grill on this one was different, cannot remember exactly what though. The left hand looked the same though. I felt it was good price but just getting back into it, I did not really want to spend the money on a second one, when one sat around for many years. I did pick up a student size Lyra for $100 that is in good shape. Very similar to the one I learned on before I had the Giulietti.

I might break down and try to buy it, if it is still available after the Holidays. It is someone in the local accordion club. The members are mostly beginners to intermediate and no one knows what a free bass is. The person selling it is a 60ish lady for whom it is too heavy. She has several other accordions.

 

[donn]

Brazil being a tropical hot very humid environment, unless that accordion was lovingly cared for and kept in a cool humidified environment, chances are not very high that it will be in good condition, especially considering the age.

As far as I know its immaterial, no one is thinking of coming within 4000 miles of that accordion, but as long as were just chatting about matters that I suppose neither of us know much about ... well, I did visit Brazil once, and traveled through some pretty arid stretches, but ... its a very large country, and Ive only been to the relatively sparsely populated northwest. The largest concentration of people, around São Paulo (pop 32M), enjoy a climate that is somewhat wet, but average relative humidity is 80% or below all year, and apparently the record high is 96°F (35 C) (the record here in Seattle in the maritime Pacific Northwest is 103F.) Short of extreme heat that would melt the beeswax, I would expect the relatively mild weather there to be pretty easy on accordions, and indeed it seems to be a fairly common instrument over the years.

 

[maugein96]

Hi Donn,

The guy in this clip is a dealer/repairer from the Curitiba area and seems to specialise in older models going way back to the 40s, and possibly before that.

Never been to Brazil, but they say Curitiba has a similar climate to the southern US. All of the accordions he sells are immaculate. Have no idea of the make or model of the 140 bass accordion in the video, but I love his playing.

The tune is a famous tango played at what is presumably an upbeat Brazilian tempo, but I cannot remember its name.


EDIT: - Caption to the clip says its a Hohner, and the tune is Uno. (I finally remembered it )

 

[Ganza]

Hi all,

actually my girlfriend is from Curitiba, Ive been there a few times - I can tell you its cold and wet by Brazilian standards. Its similar to temperature in Melbourne, Australia, if youve ever been there, which is usually a couple of degrees cooler than Sydney.

Re. the old accordions in Brazil - they are really, really common there. People just dont have the money to buy new accordions. A GOOD salary there is 785 euros per month.

So they do up old accordions all the time, there are so many accordionists and tonnes of repairers. Heres one, click on the accordions and listen to the videos: http://sanfoneirosdobrasil.com.br

In Brazil accordions are just seen as another instrument, like a guitar. I keep meaning to write a long piece on Brazilian accordion music for this website - ill get around to it someday! Brazilians particularly seem to love Giulettis as accordion great Dominguinhos played them.

 

[maugein96]

Hello again Ganza,

That's the way to sell accordions. It's also great to see the price list for repairs etc., although I suppose they are only a guide. Interesting to find all of the adverts I saw said the accordion was built in 1960. That must have been a busy year for the Brazilian importers! Only kidding. The accordions all appear to be in great condition.

I was on You Tube yesterday and there was a link to a retailer with the word "Curitiba" in the web address. I clicked on the link and immediately got what looked like a spoof Google "update necessary" screen. I couldn't close the "Google" screen, but managed to shut my laptop down from the power button, and there appears to have been no damage done. My security programme never picked up any attack, and everything seems to be fine.

Just in case anybody else finds the site and is tempted to follow the link. I was fascinated by the fact the shop was actually selling chromatic accordions (as well as the usual PAs) in Brazil!

There are definitely a lot of old relic accordions in Brazil, and it just goes to show that they made them to last in the old days.

Remembered the Hal Leonard book you recommended in another post and am waiting for it to arrive. I learned a lot about Brazilian music for guitar by a guy called Nelson Faria. Only problem is I could never master nylon strung guitars and finger playing style, but he also plays electric and I got to discover a lot of chords and rhythms which I had never been able to work out before.

The music from the more remote areas of Brazil will possibly remain unwritten unless it attains the popularity of the more common styles. Mind you the Samba and Bossa styles are now getting a bit dated, at least in Europe, and if you mention the word "Choro" to most Europeans they wouldn't have a clue what you were talking about. Probably think it was a spicy sausage!

Thanks Ganza, and I for one will definitely be interested in anything about Brazilian accordions and music.