• If you haven't done so already, please add a location to your profile. This helps when people are trying to assist you, suggest resources, etc. Thanks

A little more virtuosity?

Dingo40

Been here for ages!
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
2,021
Reaction score
557
Location
South Australia
A little more virtuosity? :)

Both players are playing right hand only and using strapped up lower bellows. Funny how I had never noticed that before but, as someone said, it’s not so much “seeing is believing “ as “ believing is seeing “! :)
Also interesting, is being able to compare fingering of the same tune, side by side, being played simultaneously on both a CBA and  PA :)

Massimo is so blasé, he can adjust the tempo on the rhythm machine without skipping a beat.

 

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
3,059
Reaction score
107
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
That playing only when pulling and using the air button so that they don't have to push, to the point that it clearly interferes with the song, that drives me crazy... lol
The music? Awesome!
 

Dingo40

Been here for ages!
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
2,021
Reaction score
557
Location
South Australia
"Well, to me, that seems more like playing AT the accordion rather than playing the accordion.."
Well, I can't help agreeing with you,Tony.
It seems a waste of the instrument's potential: one may as well be playing the organetto or a one handed keyboard of some kind.
Also, why bother having all those bass buttons and is there even a functioning bass mechanism installed, and why?
Nevertheless, it takes all kinds, and this is as legitimate as any other genre! :)
 

JerryPH

Been here for ages!
Site Supporter
Joined
Feb 16, 2016
Messages
3,059
Reaction score
107
Location
Montreal, Quebec, Canada
Legit? Yes, of course. Good music? Definitely. I just have quirks and opinions based on my own musical upbringing and was sharing them. There are many conjunto players that actually remove not only the complete bass side, but the opposing reeds on the right hand so quite literally it doesn't have bass at any time and treble sounds only when pulling. The stated reasoning behind it was to reduce weight, but those already tiny instruments are feathers even before making these modifications... so again, I just don't get it. :)
 
M

maugein96

Guest
Dingo40 pid=68629 dateline=1576546680 said:
A little more virtuosity? :)

Both players are playing right hand only and using strapped up lower bellows. Funny how I had never noticed that before but, as someone said, it’s not so much “seeing is believing “ as “ believing is seeing “! :)
Also interesting, is being able to compare fingering of the same tune, side by side, being played simultaneously on both a CBA and  PA :)

Massimo is so blasé, he can adjust the tempo on the rhythm machine without skipping a beat.


Dingo,

The players in the clip are from the Bologna area, birthplace of the organetto bolognese, which has been discussed on the forum before. 

The organetto bolognese was largely replaced by small CBAs and PAs without bass buttons, as championed by Ruggero Passarini and Andrea Scala, although some players wanted a greater range on the treble side, so they turned to full sized CBA, but applied organetto playing techniques.

The most famous of the Bologna style accordionists was Carlo Venturi (dont think he was closely related to Massimo Venturi, but Im not sure). 

If you check this clip of Carlo playing youll see he also has the bottom bellows strap locked, and he makes great use of the Bologna shunt as he fires those bellows shut sharpish to get back to playing on the draw. He does use the bass buttons from time to time, but as often as not they are just dots on the accordion. 



Carlo Venturi was a prolific teacher, and Barbara Lucchi was a pupil of his. I think she is the most prolific exponent of the Bologna shunt I have ever seen. Her father, Dino Lucchi, also tended to play the box in much the same manner, although he never made it look quite so obvious.


Essentially, the players are using a sort of organetto bolognese technique on full sized instruments that is local to the Bologna area, and the region has a fair number of accordionists who play in exactly the same manner. Whether the techniques involved have been adopted by players from other regions is beyond my knowledge. 

Is there anything wrong with what they do? It seems that the general consensus is that they are not using their accordions to their full potential. However, it is their music and they are happy to play it that way. Weight, or other physical factors do not seem to be a consideration. Carlo Venturi managed to get an awful lot of expression into his music and was a local legend. He wasnt really interested in what people outside of his home region thought of his music or the way he played his accordion, and he died very young. I dare say he or his pupils could have shed some light on the whys and wherefores of his idiosyncrasies. Personally speaking I love the music although I would concede that like most other local styles, it is of limited appeal to those who prefer the more technically challenging repertoires.
 

Dingo40

Been here for ages!
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
2,021
Reaction score
557
Location
South Australia
John,
Thanks again for your for your interesting and informative insights! :)
Personally, I like the music very much and I like the variety and skill  it demonstrates. My only reason for commenting on  the style of execution was to draw attention to it's unexpected departure from the "orthodoxy " one could expect from the "norm", thus demonstrating the artificiality of the norm.
Its a bit like watching that Brazilian accordionist (Tostão) playing both hands on the bass buttons!
It just goes to show: there's more ways than one to skin a cat! :)
BTW: Wishing you and all our members a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!
 
M

maugein96

Guest
Dingo40 pid=68738 dateline=1577134092 said:
John,
Thanks again for your for your interesting and informative insights! :)
Personally, I like the music very much and I like the variety and skill  it demonstrates. My only reason for commenting on  the style of execution was to draw attention to its unexpected departure from the orthodoxy one could expect from the norm, thus demonstrating the artificiality of the norm.
Its a bit like watching that Brazilian accordionist (Tostão) playing both hands on the bass buttons!
It just goes to show: theres more ways than one to skin a cat! :)
BTW: Wishing you and all our members a Merry Christmas and a happy New Year!

Dingo,

Just lost a fairly comprehensive reply to your post when my computer locked up, but it seems that a handful of mainly CBA players in Emilia Romagna took their lead from Maestro Carlo Venturi in style and technique. The fact that the Bolognese Filuzzi style featured the little 4 row chromatic organettos with no basses probably carried an element of crossover when the players converted to full sized accordions. It must be said that many Filuzzi players were also very competent at playing bass accompaniment, and it was just when they were playing in a band that they decided to put all their efforts into playing the treble side.


Most pro Italian players are showmen, and keen to show off their dazzling techniques, often to the detriment of the actual tune they are playing. Venturi was no different in that respect, but he was generally regarded as a virtuoso CBA player, even although he often treated the bass buttons as ornaments, and only used half of his bellows! 

Here is Dino Lucchi (Barbaras father) playing a waltz from the rural mountainous area around Bologna. I was never a fan of the tuning of that particular Lucchini accordion. The music is straightforward and uncomplicated, but still requires a considerable amount of technique to keep it all going. Dino was influenced by Carlo Venturi, but was of an earlier school. He was good at playing those little fill ins on the treble side, and at least paid lip service to the basses. 



You can hear where a lot of the French musette took its influence from. A large amount of French players were either Italian or of Italian extraction.  

[font=Tahoma,Verdana,Arial,Sans-Serif]Seasons Greetings to you as well Dingo.  :cool: [/font]
 

Tom

Prolific poster
Site Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
1,954
Reaction score
379
Location
USA
Hmmmmmm, this is a good question:

Most pro Italian players are showmen, and keen to show off their dazzling techniques, often to the detriment of the actual tune they are playing

While I agree that many are, I dont know if MOST are. I think there are a lot of YouTube accordionists of this variety, but possibly your average (most) Italian accordionist are playing in a show (dance) orchestra accompanying a singer, or in a traditional band playing tunes. While a certain amount of showmanship is expected, the showoffs may be actually a minority.

Speaking of not using basses, I notice a number of accordionists adding a handheld keyboard to the repertoire, perhaps to update the look?

Heres Giorgio C. for example:


Anyways, thanks and Merry Christmas to all!!
 

Dingo40

Been here for ages!
Joined
Nov 27, 2017
Messages
2,021
Reaction score
557
Location
South Australia
Here you can see that Barbara  Lucchi may have acquired her shunting technique at least in part from her father, Dino :):
(Not that theres anything wrong with that :))

 
M

maugein96

Guest
Dingo40 pid=68745 dateline=1577154315 said:
Here you can see that Barbara  Lucchi may have acquired her shunting technique at least in part from her father, Dino :):
(Not that theres anything wrong with that :))


Dingo,

I thought I had seen old Dino doing that but couldnt find a clip. Thanks!

What seems obvious is that it seems to be a local variation on bellows control. They obviously have a reason for it, and hopefully the truth will out some day. I have tried interrogating Italian websites and forums using Google translate, but so far have had no joy. 

At one time I knew a lot of Italians in Edinburgh, when I lived there, but none of them was from Bologna. One theory I had was that the style had been developed by a chain smoking accordionist who needed to keep the bellows as tight as possible so that the cigarette ash never burned through the bellows, but Ive been wrong before!  ;)
 
M

maugein96

Guest
Tom pid=68743 dateline=1577153539 said:
Hmmmmmm, this is a good question:

Most pro Italian players are showmen, and keen to show off their dazzling techniques, often to the detriment of the actual tune they are playing

While I agree that many are, I dont know if MOST are.  I think there are a lot of YouTube accordionists of this variety, but possibly your average (most) Italian accordionist are playing in a show (dance) orchestra accompanying a singer, or in a traditional band playing tunes.  While a certain amount of showmanship is expected, the showoffs may be actually a minority.

Speaking of not using basses, I notice a number of accordionists adding a handheld keyboard to the repertoire, perhaps to update the look?

Heres Giorgio C. for example:


Anyways, thanks and Merry Christmas to all!!

Hi Tom,

Dont think Ive ever seen an Italian player, pro or amateur, play live on stage, and my entire experience of listening has been on You Tube and old VHS videos. I often forget that You Tube isnt a true representation of reality, but for some of us it is just too readily available. 

With the Bologna CBA players it seems to be the case that as soon as they have mastered the button trills they want to play entire passages using nothing else. It is fascinating to watch, but perhaps not very musical. 

As per usual it tends to be the Kings and Queens of You Tube who are the big show offs, and most ordinary, but nevertheless competent, players probably just get up and play to the best of their abilities as you say. 

A few years ago there were several Italian TV documentaries that featured the folk music of Emilia Romagna, and some of the best known local accordionists were quiet and unassuming. Maybe if they had put them on You Tube they would have been more flamboyant. At least the modern show offs dont have those awful loud jackets and suits that the old French players believed were indispensable. 

Merry Xmas to everybody!  :)

P.S. This accordion event is held in the mountain village of Monghidoro, near Bologna. It used to be held every year, but Im not sure if it still is. The audience tends to be mainly of the older generation, and they applaud whenever they think the player is doing something clever. Perhaps that is what spurs the players on. One or two gaffes in this track, but it proves he is human! Tendency to play more on the draw, as is usual for the area.



Proof that the accordion is a modern invention here:-

 

Tom

Prolific poster
Site Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
1,954
Reaction score
379
Location
USA
I think youre pretty right on, John. Thanks for this revival site, I havent seen it. I leave you with Mimmo Mirabellas Despacito, as an example of a contemporary accordionist with over 12 million views and a pretty tasteful style, imho, also a sense of humor!

 
M

maugein96

Guest
Tom,

Hadnt heard of Mimmo until recently, and there cannot be many B system CBA players in Italy.

Its great to see young players like these keeping folk accordion alive in the mountains of Emilia Romagna:-


I know the linen over the treble buttons has been seen before, but it became a trademark of Marco Ruggeri (Il Galinino), who claimed it helped him to do glissando on CBA.
 

Tom

Prolific poster
Site Supporter
Joined
May 1, 2013
Messages
1,954
Reaction score
379
Location
USA
Thanks, I haven't seen that before. Hope I'm going strong when I'm that young!
 

Similar threads

Top