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3 x 3 bass keyboard. Which version?

Pipemajor

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So I got me a Roland FRX3b and when I got it, it was configured for 3 x 3 bass layout. I didn't know there were different versions, only that it had 3 rows of bass notes, so I reset it to 2 x 4.
I normally play a 5 row bass Paolo Soprani bought in France, so the diminished chord is one row down on the 7th button which I'm used to.
I'm beginning to think I was too hasty in losing the 3 x 3 as I think an extra row of bass buttons could be useful, but, looking at the Roland manual, there are quite a few different layouts.
Any advice would be most welcome, thanks
 

Glenn

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I have mine set to 3+3 with the extra row being a minor 3rd.
eg. I have C - E - Eb
 

donn

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If it works, I guess that's fine, but of course I'd recommend the configuration both my accordions (Fratelli Crosio & Cavagnolo) have - C E Ab. The principle is the same, but because of the diagonal direction of the button column, Eb in the third row feels closer at hand when it's in the G column. (I would also refer to the general arithmetic here as "3/3" or maybe "3+3", because "3x3" seems to describe a 9 key layout.)

If it's easy to reproduce the Roland manual diagrams here, that would be interesting. I can't think of many useful variations.
 

losthobos

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C E Ab..... Keeps the diagonals uniform so if you move up playing just inner two rows everything is natural.... 😉
 

debra

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The only 3+3 system I ever had (and still have one) has C-E-Eb. I have never seen another system of 3+3... but there are so many different designs that nothing surprises me.
 

Pipemajor

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If it works, I guess that's fine, but of course I'd recommend the configuration both my accordions (Fratelli Crosio & Cavagnolo) have - C E Ab. The principle is the same, but because of the diagonal direction of the button column, Eb in the third row feels closer at hand when it's in the G column. (I would also refer to the general arithmetic here as "3/3" or maybe "3+3", because "3x3" seems to describe a 9 key layout.)

If it's easy to reproduce the Roland manual diagrams here, that would be interesting. I can't think of many useful variations.
Here are the different 3/3 bass layouts
 

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donn

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Thanks, that's interesting. I see the third and fourth versions are essentially the first and second, reversed from top to bottom, with some indication that this might be a Belgian thing (in which case I guess the layout might more likely be square, and I suppose that would clearly call for C - E - Eb.)

I think the chart is wrong, about the dominant 7th row. There's only one way it can work, and that means the dominant 7th isn't 1-3-7 as they write, but rather 3-5-7 (for C7, E-G-Bb); the diminished is then 1-3-7 of the adjacent row (for Cdim on the G column, G-Bb-E.) Maybe that's what they mean and I'm just being obtuse. Anyway, it's the most significant difference in a way, since every time you play dominant 7 chord you get different notes out of it, and I occasionally wonder if that makes any real difference in the sound.
 

dunlustin

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How about this (see FR3X manual page 53 Bass and chord Mode for ‘Values’ ) ?
( If not bothered about an explanation, just choose Value 3 to have the same as your Paolo )
Forget Value7 - don’t need Belgian bass system. Forget Value6 – flat keys towards the chin, sharps to the floor.
Normally the bass going diagonally towards the bellows is a semitone lower C goes to B and so on.
Forget Values4 and 5 because they do not keep to this pattern.

Choose between 2 and 3:
Value2 gives 7th with root and no 5th – you lose the dim work-around.

Value3: this does not have the root in the IV7chord, C7 plays E G Bflat
The Gdim chord (partial) is E G Bflat . So, with Value3: a C7 can stand in for a Gdim.
 

losthobos

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All these chords are possible from the F7 button on the 3,5,7 voicing... I play this system with the diagonal bass... The only thing missing is the augmented (#5) chord so i generally play the #5 on the treble and play any of the bass notes 1,3,7.... Hope helpful..
 

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Alan Sharkis

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Thanks, that's interesting. I see the third and fourth versions are essentially the first and second, reversed from top to bottom, with some indication that this might be a Belgian thing (in which case I guess the layout might more likely be square, and I suppose that would clearly call for C - E - Eb.)

I think the chart is wrong, about the dominant 7th row. There's only one way it can work, and that means the dominant 7th isn't 1-3-7 as they write, but rather 3-5-7 (for C7, E-G-Bb); the diminished is then 1-3-7 of the adjacent row (for Cdim on the G column, G-Bb-E.) Maybe that's what they mean and I'm just being obtuse. Anyway, it's the most significant difference in a way, since every time you play dominant 7 chord you get different notes out of it, and I occasionally wonder if that makes any real difference in the sound.
In Roland digital accordions, at least in my FR-4x, there are several ways to configure bass layouts, as has been described in previous methods. But sticking with a 2+4 layout gives some interesting results as far as midi transmission is concerned. There are three modes; normal, D-mode and accordion.

The default is normal (don’t ask me why.) In this mode, major and minor chords are transmitted as the usual triads, but sevenths are transmitted as full dominant sevenths (the fifths are included,) and diminished chords as diminished sevenths (1-b3-b5-6.)

Using the menu, you can select d-mode. In which only the root note of the chord is transmitted, but in four different octaves, depending on whether the chord button you press is major, minor, seventh or diminished.

Again, usung the menu, you can choose accordion- mode. This is an all-triad transmitting mode. I have not explored it as to wherher the chord buttons send midi messages for the chords in root position or in some inversion.

Two things must be remembered, however. The first is that the above mode descriptions refer only to what the accordion transmits in midi messages, NOT what you would hear from the accordion’s speakers or an external amp, if connected.

The second thing to remember is that selecting d-mode or accordion-mode will not be “remembered”
by the accordion unless you perform the additional step of saving that setting before turning off the accordion.
 

Pipemajor

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How about this (see FR3X manual page 53 Bass and chord Mode for ‘Values’ ) ?
( If not bothered about an explanation, just choose Value 3 to have the same as your Paolo )
Forget Value7 - don’t need Belgian bass system. Forget Value6 – flat keys towards the chin, sharps to the floor.
Normally the bass going diagonally towards the bellows is a semitone lower C goes to B and so on.
Forget Values4 and 5 because they do not keep to this pattern.

Choose between 2 and 3:
Value2 gives 7th with root and no 5th – you lose the dim work-around.

Value3: this does not have the root in the IV7chord, C7 plays E G Bflat
The Gdim chord (partial) is E G Bflat . So, with Value3: a C7 can stand in for a Gdim.
Thanks Dunlustin. That makes sense. I think i'll try value 3 which was probably on there before I re-set it, and see how I get on (y)
 

dunlustin

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Pipemajor, I'm glad if I have helped - wish I could suggest something for your other puzzle.
 

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