Cassotto on bass?
#1
Hi I recently just acquired a nice C System Scandalli (L 93/15) which apparently has cassotto or “mini cassotto) on the bass side? (That’s what the previous owner said) I’ve never before seen or owned one of these hence I’m asking  if this is possible? I have tested all the 6 registers but none have that mellow sound. I’m attaching a photo. 

Thanks

Also (I know this is a bit of an amateurish question but I don’t much about accordions) how do I describe an accordion in terms of L M H etc.? I never quite understood that. I know that L is low (bassoon?) and H is high (piccolo?), but what would be the difference between LMH and LMMH?


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#2
(21-05-2020, 11:39 AM)Rogercr27 Wrote: Hi I recently just acquired a nice C System Scandalli (L 93/15) which apparently has cassotto or “mini cassotto) on the bass side? (That’s what the previous owner said) I’ve never before seen or owned one of these hence I’m asking  if this is possible? I have tested all the 6 registers but none have that mellow sound. I’m attaching a photo. 

Thanks

This is what is called an "Umleitstimmstock". The sound from the lowest bass reeds can either exit the reed block directly (that's most common), can be diverted through a channel at 90 degree angle, called "Winkelbaß" or through a channel at 180 degree angle, the "Umleitstimmstock". So in both systems the sound travels through a longer channel that acts like a bigger resonance chamber, and it's a bit like having a single-note cassotto. This boosts volume and because it's only used on the lowest set of reeds it emphasizes the deep bass sound.
The "Umleitstimmstock" is most commonly found in bass accordions. I have seen it on Bugari and Giulietti bass accordions. I believe some Hohner bass accordions have it too (not sure). Sadly my Pigini bass accordion does not have it.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl
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#3
Thanks Paul that’s really interesting I didn’t know, I will be putting it up for sale soon so it was important to know.
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#4
LMH.... Bassoon, Clarinet, Piccolo
LMMH, Bassoon, Clarinet plus offset Clarinet played together give pleasant tremelo...sometimes described as Violin, Piccolo
Hope helps... Keep us posted when up for sale... Cheers Terry
Right or wrong make it strong...when in doubt miss it out...
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#5
It would be easier to understand if we differentiated between M and M :

Notation 
LMM'H 

The ' stressing the difference in tuning for the tremolo effect MM'. 

In Belgium the notation is 4+88'+16. 

I never understood why they copied reed organ register names for the accordion. 
No way an accordion sounds like a bassoon, oboe, violin,....
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#6
Some people use M+ and M- according to if it's sharp or flat, it can help.
I think some musette tunings are even MM+M++ instead of M-MM+.

But that doesn't help much if you don't know if it's sharp or flat :)
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#7
Thanks to everyone for the help it makes more sense now. I just advertised my accordion on ebay and other sites, could anyone please have a look at the registers and confirm me that is a LMMH? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scandalli-C-g...b06c837eb2
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#8
(21-05-2020, 06:38 PM)Rogercr27 Wrote: Thanks to everyone for the help it makes more sense now. I just advertised my accordion on ebay and other sites, could anyone please have a look at the registers and confirm me that is a LMMH? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Scandalli-C-g...b06c837eb2

The register markings correspond to an LMMH accordion. And given that it's a Scandalli I see no reason to doubt it. But there are accordions where the placing of the dots does not correspond to what's actually inside. Register markings have been used to look pretty more than to be accurate on many occasions. I have a Crucianelli with LMMH markings but it's really LMMM. You can guess that the markings are just for beauty by checking which registers there are. (Mine is missing H, LH and LMH for instance). Yours has all the register markings you would expect in an LMMH accordion so I believe they are correct.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl
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#9
I'm not sure that Scandalli has an Umleitstimmstock (also called Umlenkstimmstock). The low bass reed block appears too thin and just seems like a normal reed block.
Here are examples of (German) versions of that concept and the reed block is much thicker:
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/mor...st-8444460 (Second photo)
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/ind...st-7354756 (video)

Or is that what the Italian versions look like?

Also, there actually was a (wooden) bass cassotto in the Hohner Morino that appeared somewhere in the late 30's and was phased out in the early 50's. Here is an example from my 1953 Hohner Morino M (4 bass octaves):
   

Here are bass cassotto examples from even older models, before the Morino M series, where they have 5 bass octaves:
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/ael...st-6595852
https://www.musiker-board.de/threads/ael...st-8201532
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#10
(22-05-2020, 11:13 AM)Morne Wrote: I'm not sure that Scandalli has an Umleitstimmstock (also called Umlenkstimmstock). The low bass reed block appears too thin and just seems like a normal reed block.
Well I don't know either. The owner said there was something like a cassotto on the bass side. Since it isn't a regular cassotto (of which you showed examples) and it isn't a "Winkelbass" (which is what Hohner moved to after using a real cassotto) it is either an Umleitstimmstock or nothing.
It is easy enough to find out what it is. If the owner takes out the reed block and looks through the holes, if he sees only a wooden conduit then it's an Umleitstimmstock and if he can see the reeds then it's just a regular bass block, nothing cassotto-like at all.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl
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#11
I do believe is Umleitstimmtock because I can certainly notice a sound difference between this Scandalli and the other regular accordions that I’ve had; this one has a much richer and “deeper” sound that the standard ones so it would make sense. Probably some German accordions were made in a different way, I’ve had some Hohners where the bass button mechanism was quite different to the usual Italian ones.
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