Is this likely to be any good?
#1
is this likely to be any good? Confused

https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/adelaide...1224710776
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#2
Could be, there’s only one way to find out. Since it’s advertised as pick up only, then the market is restricted to those within travelling distance. If you’re keen, go and try it. Musette tuning varies quite a bit, and may not be to your taste. It’s not my preferred sound.
Elderly teenager still experimenting with music of all descriptions.  I may not please anyone else, but I’m long past caring about that.
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#3
I'd definitely make the effort to have a look.
Cavas are up there with the best - unless it's shot, it's a bargain.
They do however have a sound of their own - often prized and said to be due to quality reeds pinned on leather rather than waxed on - but some people hate it.
Richard
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#4
Cavagnolo traditionally run their musette at about 8 cents.... A happy medium for most styles... Personally i love the sound of nailed in reeds..
Right or wrong make it strong...when in doubt miss it out...
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#5
You might want to enquire if it is tuned a =440 or a = 443 (or some other pitch). You may prefer one or the other for your purpose.
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#6
(21-10-2019, 04:52 PM)Jim2010 Wrote: You might want to enquire if it is tuned a =440 or a = 443 (or some other pitch). You may prefer one or the other for your purpose.

Dingo,

The box for sale is what appears to be a "Junior" model, which is or was the preferred student model in France. 

Although it isn't top of the range, the quality is generally as good as the more expensive models. That one looks to be what they were turning out in the 70s and 80s, and very occasionally the build quality at that time wasn't the best. You might be lucky and get a good one, but until you play it you won't know.

Although there are three couplers on the rear they all serve the same purpose, and that is to switch from two voice to one. 

The tuning is described as French musette, but as it has only two treble voices you'll have straight tuned M and a sharp tuned M, which serves as a "faux musette". The sharp tuned reeds will be anything from about 4 up to 20 cents, and again various people have different ideas about what is "musette".

Consistent with the age of the instrument, I would expect all of the buttons, both treble and bass, to be fairly noisy in operation, especially if you are used to a PA with international style peg type bass buttons. Probably worth up to 1500 Au dollars if it is in reasonable condition. That bass strap is on its last legs by the look of it, and check the bellows for any obvious signs of wear and tear. 

80 bass is common in France and will be normal Stradella without the Dim7 row. It will have 4 bass voices with no coupler, and the French basses are configured so that the 7th doubles as a dim. Don't ask me how they do it, as it's too technical for me, and I've played nothing else for years, so I don't really know what the difference is. It involves using a different combination of three notes to produce the chord, and was explained to me once, a very long time ago.   

Certainly as good a start on CBA as you'll probably find in Australia.

The photos appear to indicate that it's in reasonable condition for its age, and good luck if you decide to go for it. Just remember the limitations of the two voice if you're used to bigger boxes. It will probably be 442 Hz straight out of the factory, unless it has been retuned to 440 Hz.
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#7
Stradella stacked 7th chord is Root, 3rd and 7th...5 missing which is good if you wanna play a lot of altrted jazz chords
Cavagnolo had 7th stacked, 3rd , 5th and 7th... No Root, so you can play the button underneath for the diminished.... Ie F7 will sound as C dim, G7 will double as D dim
Hope that helps
Right or wrong make it strong...when in doubt miss it out...
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#8
(21-10-2019, 09:19 PM)losthobos Wrote: Stradella stacked 7th chord is Root, 3rd and 7th...5 missing which is good if you wanna play a lot of altrted jazz chords
Cavagnolo had 7th stacked, 3rd , 5th and 7th... No Root, so you can play the button underneath for the diminished.... Ie F7 will sound as C dim, G7 will double as D dim
Hope that helps

Hi Terry,

I do believe that was the information that was imparted to me, but I could never get past the "take away the number you first thought of" element of it. I know that 6 upside down looks like 9, and my ould Irish grandfather told me to always make sure I wrote the figure 1 the correct way up. Couldn't work out how to write 11 though! 

Thanks for explaining the difference between the two bass systems. All I knew was they were different, but I got the bit about the dim7 wrong (again).
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#9
Thanks everyone for your interesting and helpful information.
I probably won’t go for it, simply because I’ve already got my hands full with what I’ve already got  Smile
Thanks again: very helpful and thorough!
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#10
(21-10-2019, 10:26 PM)Dingo40 Wrote: Thanks everyone for your interesting and helpful information.
I probably won’t go for it, simply because I’ve already got my hands full with what I’ve already got  Smile
Thanks again: very helpful and thorough!

Dingo,

Generally speaking, French made accordions tend to be treated with contempt in most English speaking countries, and even in the days when there were more players around they were very difficult to come by in the UK. Most people who wanted one were obliged to place an order for a new box via a dealer. In Scotland, only one dealer would touch them, and even then they were imported in ones and twos for a relatively short time. Midi killed them stone dead here with most players preferring the French musette sound they produced rather than the real thing. The fact that most of them are 4 row also alienated them from the teachers who insisted on using the same fingering to play all of the scales. 

With acoustic instruments the Scottish and older Irish musette tunings were deemed to be close enough to French to obviate the purchase of a French spec instrument, and CBA has never warmed to UK hearts in sufficient numbers to oust the PA from its pedestal. The tuning element is like saying an electric guitar is eminently suitable for Flamenco, and there is no point in wasting money on a one trick pony type of instrument. However, that would appear to be the general attitude to this day with UK and Irish pro players, and they know their game better than I ever will. 
 
French accordions have a brighter sound than most people are used to, on account of those reeds pinned on leather or cork, and most UK types would describe their sound as "tinny", compared with the warmer tones of Italian made boxes with waxed reeds. I would have to admit that in my own experience Italian made instruments with nailed or pinned reeds for the French market tend to be of more robust construction than their Gallic counterparts. The fact that they are usually considerably cheaper than the French big 2 of Cavagnolo or Maugein would also tend to steer me towards Italian. 

It is very difficult these days to know what's "under the hood", and as far as I know both Cavagnolo and Maugein have used Italian made reeds, and probably other Italian sourced components, for most of the time they have been in production. 

A UK workforce wouldn't be capable of making accordions, as it would need about 127 different tradesmen to tackle all of the different skills involved, and the fact that there would be no shift work with enhanced hourly rates would make the job unattractive.
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#11
Yep.... Italian reeds and many parts... Met old man Maugein in Castelfidardo few years back when he was picking up supplies...
Nailed in reeds have a unique sound that i wouldn't describe as tinny... And add cassotto and the sound is wonderous
John.. Another trick re Dim7 is if searching forvC dim whilst playing in C is to pop the thumb ovrr to the D7 and this will give a good substitute...
Right or wrong make it strong...when in doubt miss it out...
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#12
Thanks, John,
Always informative and interesting, as usual.
Thanks for your input.
I understand it’s probably a bargain. On the other hand, I’m already kept fairly busy with my PAs and probably don’t need the diversification  Smile
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#13
(22-10-2019, 08:45 AM)Dingo40 Wrote: Thanks, John,
Always informative and interesting, as usual.
Thanks for your input.
I understand it’s probably a bargain. On the other hand, I’m already kept fairly busy with my PAs and probably don’t need the diversification  Smile

Dingo,

I think we all get tempted to try our hand at something else from time to time. A while back I was interested in getting hold of a Russian bayan and maybe a diatonic, but the rain check told me that my house had no room for another two instruments I'd probably never play. 

Terry,

I don't have the fingers to perform acrobatics on the bass side, but it's a good tip nevertheless. 

I'm of the short fat finger variety, who despite being told would be better off perfecting my skills on harmonica, decided to try and confound the experts and try my hand at guitar and accordion. 

So far it's Experts - 2, Me - 0.

Figured if Redd Volkaert could play guitar with those fingers I might have a chance. If I actually had his fingers my theory would have been correct, but his are $2 a pound, and mine are somewhat under weight. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EIUMcGYm6I

Accordion solo at 2.06.
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