One accordion, six degrees of dryness/wetness
#1
I'm sure this will have been thought of before but here goes.

A MMM accordion can have three degrees of wetness, MM*, M*M, MM*

Is there such an accordion as MMMM?

If so it could be tuned with six degrees of wetness, MM**, M*M*, M**M, *MM*, *M*M, **MM.

For example, if M1=0, M2=+6 cents, M3=+14 cents, M4=+25 cents tunings are

+6 cents, + 14 cents, +25 cents, +8 cents, +19 cents, +11 cents

Surely this range of tunings on a single accordion would accommodate all genres?

It all depends of course whether you can have four M reed sets within one box.
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#2
Phil,


Seems you are a fan of musette tuning in various forms. As far as I'm able to work out, the tunings you describe would only give you three different types of "musette", each using two MM voices only. You'd have the 6,14, and 25 cents, but I'm at a loss as to how you could achieve any of the other tunings you mention, unless you are advocating use of two sharp reeds together, either with or without the straight tuned M. You might (just) get away with the 6 and 14 cent reeds together, but once you bring a 25 cent off tuned reed into the equation I wouldn't like to be standing anywhere near it if you coupled it with either the 6 or 14 cent banks.

I know that musette tuning can be a vital part of some accordion repertoires, and has been the subject of much debate on here. However, the very notion of all those off tuned reeds in one instrument is mind boggling, and I would imagine that had there been a requirement for such an instrument, we'd have all heard of it by now. 

If it's a French sound you're looking for as a PA player try listening to Louis Ferrari, the only PA player to make the big time in France. He was actually Italian, but left an indelible stamp on the world of musette. Don't know what tuning he used, but probably not much more than 12 cents. His tunes like Montparnasse and Domino were unforgettable. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhFANnws_rc&t=10s 

If however, you must have that big musette sound, you'd go far to better this guy, Simon Hottentot, from The Netherlands.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcjTOqxMW-A

I could listen to a whole album of Louis Ferrari right through, but you'd need to tie me to the chair to get me to sit right through one tune of Simon's even although I respect him very much as a player. Same genre, different tunings.
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#3
(07-02-2019, 03:55 PM)maugein96 Wrote: Phil,


Seems you are a fan of musette tuning in various forms. As far as I'm able to work out, the tunings you describe would only give you three different types of "musette", each using two MM voices only. You'd have the 6,14, and 25 cents, but I'm at a loss as to how you could achieve any of the other tunings you mention, unless you are advocating use of two sharp reeds together, either with or without the straight tuned M. You might (just) get away with the 6 and 14 cent reeds together, but once you bring a 25 cent off tuned reed into the equation I wouldn't like to be standing anywhere near it if you coupled it with either the 6 or 14 cent banks.

I know that musette tuning can be a vital part of some accordion repertoires, and has been the subject of much debate on here. However, the very notion of all those off tuned reeds in one instrument is mind boggling, and I would imagine that had there been a requirement for such an instrument, we'd have all heard of it by now. 

If it's a French sound you're looking for as a PA player try listening to Louis Ferrari, the only PA player to make the big time in France. He was actually Italian, but left an indelible stamp on the world of musette. Don't know what tuning he used, but probably not much more than 12 cents. His tunes like Montparnasse and Domino were unforgettable. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhFANnws_rc&t=10s 

If however, you must have that big musette sound, you'd go far to better this guy, Simon Hottentot, from The Netherlands.  

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcjTOqxMW-A

I could listen to a whole album of Louis Ferrari right through, but you'd need to tie me to the chair to get me to sit right through one tune of Simon's even although I respect him very much as a player.

(07-02-2019, 04:01 PM)wirralaccordion Wrote:
(07-02-2019, 03:55 PM)maugein96 Wrote: Phil,


unless you are advocating use of two sharp reeds together, without the straight tuned M.


John
That is exactly it. You don't need a 0 cents reed to create the beats ( bps ) as it is purely the difference between two frequencies that gives the bps.
Phil
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#4
(07-02-2019, 04:01 PM)wirralaccordion unless you are advocating use of two sharp reeds together, without the straight tuned M. Wrote: [quote pid='63856' dateline='1549551706']


John
That is exactly it. You don't need a 0 cents reed to create the beats ( bps ) as it is purely the difference between two frequencies that gives the bps.
Phil

Hi Phil,

Italian boxes sometimes have something similar on a "Brilliante" register, although I'm pretty sure in that case you have one flat reed sounding with one sharp reed. I've never heard two sharp reeds sounding together, and don't quite know if it would work too well, especially the 14 and 25 together. You may not need a straight tuned reed, but what other instrument would you hope to play along with?

Somebody with experience of tuning might have the answer. Most times I have a stab at stuff like this somebody tells me that I don't really know what I'm talking about, but on this occasion I'd be inclined to agree with them. 

[/quote]
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#5
Well, whatever floats your boat. Go for it if that's what you like. Personally, all of that wetness would hurt my ears and probably damage what little brain I have left. My box is a 5 voice with the violin clocking in at perhaps 8 to 10 cents. Rather subtle but, in fact, I do not like huge amounts of wetness. But a more practical thing would be the weight. All of those reed blocks and the associated mechanical apparatus necessary for all those voices would make the machine way to heavy for me.
Cordially, Tony
Artisto, Italian, LMM, 41/120, PA
Warning: Only speaks/understands American English
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#6
(07-02-2019, 04:25 PM)maugein96 Wrote:
(07-02-2019, 04:01 PM)wirralaccordion unless you are advocating use of two sharp reeds together, without the straight tuned M. Wrote: [quote pid='63856' dateline='1549551706']


John
That is exactly it. You don't need a 0 cents reed to create the beats ( bps ) as it is purely the difference between two frequencies that gives the bps.
Phil

Hi Phil,

Italian boxes sometimes have something similar on a "Brilliante" register, although I'm pretty sure in that case you have one flat reed sounding with one sharp reed. I've never heard two sharp reeds sounding together, and don't quite know if it would work too well, especially the 14 and 25 together. You may not need a straight tuned reed, but what other instrument would you hope to play along with?

Somebody with experience of tuning might have the answer. Most times I have a stab at stuff like this somebody tells me that I don't really know what I'm talking about, but on this occasion I'd be inclined to agree with them. 

although I'm pretty sure in that case you have one flat reed sounding with one sharp reed

If that is to be the case then the same results would be available with the reeds tuned as follows

M1=-14cents, M2=-8cents, M3=0, M4=+11cents

[/quote]
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#7
One thing to keep in mind is whether your audience can even tell the difference. M vs MM(M) should be clear to anyone. But to the ignorant (or those blessed enough to have never heard an accordion) an MM is an MM is an MM.

Some of the more extreme combinations in your MMMM example will also make it increasingly difficult for other musicians to play with you, since you'll end up shifting the reference pitch (when you average the two values).
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