DIY Sliders...

[Mr Mark]

I have a tuning challenge where the reedblocks have no sliders. They will come at a much later date. What is the best way to go about tuning these in the meantime. I do have a sliver of balsawood the right width and thickness but no holes. The debate is to make holes in this wood (without destroying it or taking a day to do so) or to tape individual reedblock holes. The latter has been less than stellar as far as results go in the past. This may be asking a lot I realize...

 

[Ben-jammin]

just kind of spitballing here, could try taping both sides of the wood with masking tape, marking center lines where the holes need to be. And then drill out the holes incrementally in a few sizes using sharp drill bits. If you have access to a drill press this might net be too bad. If the wood cracks the tape might keep it together enough to work.

 

[Dingo40]

just kind of spitballing here, could try taping both sides of the wood with masking tape, marking center lines where the holes need to be. And then drill out the holes incrementally in a few sizes using sharp drill bits. If you have access to a drill press this might net be too bad. If the wood cracks the tape might keep it together enough to work.

Use a step drill bit ?
These are amazing!
They are available in several sizes and qualities: individually or in sets.?
See here:

https://www.kogan.com/au/buy/certa-5-piece-step-drill-bit-set/?utm_source=google&utm_medium=product_listing_ads&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIy7CwtsWe9QIVPZpmAh23Gg6MEAQYASABEgKjvfD_BwE

 

[Ben-jammin]

Use a step drill bit ?
These are amazing!
They are available in several sizes and qualities: individually or in sets.?
See here:

I like step drills pretty well, but they do put a decent amount of torque on the work piece when they “load” up on a new step. It might be a bit much on a real thin piece of balsa. A real sharp one with very controlled pressure might do the job but securing the work piece to distribute the force of torque may be prudent.

 

[debra]

When you add a thin piece of wood for register sliders you should do that *before* you do tuning, because anything that comes into the path of the air/sound later will affect the tuning. The best thing to do is to first buy (or make) the register sliders so you know exactly there the holes need to go later. (The holes in the sliders may not match the holes in the reed block exactly because the register sliders need to not only open but also close, often requiring a bit more "closed" room than the reed blocks will give you between their holes.
I would start the woodworking process by first cutting out the long straight "indentation" the slider will rest on. You use a router for this for the best results. The indentation must match the width and thickness of the register slider rather accurately because once new wooden bottom is attached to the reed block (much later) the slider must slide smoothly without leaking air.
Then you copy the hole-pattern onto the new base, by first drilling holes that are too small and then you enlarge and shape the holes match the pattern, using a router. Do not use a drill to enlarge the holes as with the drill you would need too much lateral force and you cannot work with enough precision. The whole process requires quite a bit of precision and is hard enough with a router. It's much easier if you have access to a computerized mill. That is what accordion factories use, as well as some of the larger/advanced accordion repairers. I have no experience with this but I bet that achieving the right precision to combine a smooth working of the sliders together with having no air leaks is a real challenge!
Note that many parts can be purchased ready-made. You can buy a metal base with the long cut-outs for the sliders, the sliders themselves register mechanisms, switch tops (with markings), rods that go from mechanism to the "pass-through" (from outside to inside), that pass-through itself, etc... All these parts are pretty standardized, which explains why they look identical between accordion brands and models, and why because of this also the spacing between reed plates on reed blocks appears to be more or less the same as well.

 

[Mr Mark]

just kind of spitballing here, could try taping both sides of the wood with masking tape, marking center lines where the holes need to be. And then drill out the holes incrementally in a few sizes using sharp drill bits. If you have access to a drill press this might net be too bad. If the wood cracks the tape might keep it together enough to work.

I'm going to try this in the morning, the tape was definitely missing in my thinking, thanks! Hopefully it works, if so that bodes well for future instances of this occurring.

I had also thought to maybe take a small file and square these out once they have all been drilled. We'll see how this goes.

 

[debra]

I'm going to try this in the morning, the tape was definitely missing in my thinking, thanks! Hopefully it works, if so that bodes well for future instances of this occurring.

I had also thought to maybe take a small file and square these out once they have all been drilled. We'll see how this goes.

Please, get the register sliders first, so you can make sure the holes are the right size and align perfectly with the holes in the register sliders. Lengthwise the size of the holes cannot be even the slightest bit larger than the size of the solid parts between the holes because then the register slider will not be able to close off the holes completely!

 

[Mr Mark]

When you add a thin piece of wood for register sliders you should do that *before* you do tuning, because anything that comes into the path of the air/sound later will affect the tuning. The best thing to do is to first buy (or make) the register sliders so you know exactly there the holes need to go later. (The holes in the sliders may not match the holes in the reed block exactly because the register sliders need to not only open but also close, often requiring a bit more "closed" room than the reed blocks will give you between their holes.
I would start the woodworking process by first cutting out the long straight "indentation" the slider will rest on. You use a router for this for the best results. The indentation must match the width and thickness of the register slider rather accurately because once new wooden bottom is attached to the reed block (much later) the slider must slide smoothly without leaking air.
Then you copy the hole-pattern onto the new base, by first drilling holes that are too small and then you enlarge and shape the holes match the pattern, using a router. Do not use a drill to enlarge the holes as with the drill you would need too much lateral force and you cannot work with enough precision. The whole process requires quite a bit of precision and is hard enough with a router. It's much easier if you have access to a computerized mill. That is what accordion factories use, as well as some of the larger/advanced accordion repairers. I have no experience with this but I bet that achieving the right precision to combine a smooth working of the sliders together with having no air leaks is a real challenge!
Note that many parts can be purchased ready-made. You can buy a metal base with the long cut-outs for the sliders, the sliders themselves register mechanisms, switch tops (with markings), rods that go from mechanism to the "pass-through" (from outside to inside), that pass-through itself, etc... All these parts are pretty standardized, which explains why they look identical between accordion brands and models, and why because of this also the spacing between reed plates on reed blocks appears to be more or less the same as well.

Maybe there is a misunderstanding as to what I am doing here.

This is definitely above and beyond here in this case. In this instance the sliders that normally go into the reedblock are not here for me to use so in lieu I am making a temporary slider just to be able to tune the reeds. I don't need to be able to make reedblock parts in this case, although down the road I can see that being the case and probably will happen. For sure, tuning is impossible without. I just hope the piece of wood I do have isn't too thin. I have tried taping each individual slider slot to seal them off but found working with tape in such small confined spaces too difficult to render useable results.

I would love to have access to better equipment and that will come in time - computerized milling is the way to go! Absolute precision is a must, there is nothing worse than leaking air! Sliders in the reedblock certainly complicate things when one is searching for leaks already.

Otherwise I have found that slider hole spacing definitely varies between brands and even within. All my Hohners are different. One of my slider ends broke on my Tango and the Lucia, Atlantic I have were all different so I ended up soldering some tin flashing on the end and enlarging the reedblock base to accommodate. Hooray it worked.

 

[Mr Mark]

Well…no dice. It turns out the sliver of wood I have is measuring 0.7 mm thick while one of the extra Hohner sliders I have laying around is 1.3mm. This creates too much air leakage. If the wood was thicker maybe…I did learn that anything other than an extremely sharp drill bit results in damaged wood. Even filing after the fact was a no go, the thin wood is too fragile. I will need to source some thin strips somewhere and am open to ideas. Tape for sure isn’t working.

 

[Ben-jammin]

Well…no dice. It turns out the sliver of wood I have is measuring 0.7 mm thick while one of the extra Hohner sliders I have laying around is 1.3mm. This creates too much air leakage. If the wood was thicker maybe…I did learn that anything other than an extremely sharp drill bit results in damaged wood. Even filing after the fact was a no go, the thin wood is too fragile. I will need to source some thin strips somewhere and am open to ideas. Tape for sure isn’t working.

Might try styrene. A hobby or craft store might have several thicknesses and it’s easy to work with. Some of the thinner ones can be cut with a razor blade and a straight edge

 

[Dingo40]

... I will need to source some thin strips somewhere and am open to ideas. Tape for sure isn’t working...,

How about aluminium strap/ bar from hardware suppliers??
For example, see here:

Metal Mate 25 x 1mm 1m Aluminium Flat Bar

Find Metal Mate 25 x 1mm 1m Aluminium Flat Bar at Bunnings. Visit your local store for the widest range of products.

www.bunnings.com.au

 

[Mr Mark]

Might try styrene. A hobby or craft store might have several thicknesses and it’s easy to work with. Some of the thinner ones can be cut with a razor blade and a straight edge

I will, great suggestion, thanks! Easier to work with than metal too, for sure. A place local and close has it in 1.5mm thickness, perfect!

The other thought I have had is 3D printing, although I wonder how feasible that is with something that thin. Either way, down the rabbit hole I go for this evenings reading and research material .

 

[Ben-jammin]

The other thought I have had is 3D printing, although I wonder how feasible that is with something that thin. Either way, down the rabbit hole I go for this evenings reading and research material .

3d printing is something I didn’t consider but I have to imagine it’s feasible. I think some of the hobbyist level setups might not do the length but potentially do two halves with a keyway and glue or “weld” the two halves together. If this was for serial production I would have to think it would be more efficient to use one of the 2D CNC cutting technologies (laser etching maybe).

 

[Mr Mark]

Well I didn't get to the rabbit hole after all. But I did get some styrene today. I spent a good chunk of time sanding it down as it was a little too thick, but now it fits better than the metal slide I have. The first thing I did when drilling holes was to start with a large bit, and broke the first hole/segment clean off. I started again smaller and slowly progressed my way up in drill diameter; starting around 3/32 and ending with about 3/16. Around 5/32 I had to start being a lot more careful as the bit would bite and threaten to snap the plastic every time. I now have a slider with holes but have found the air flow is still far to restricted so will have to square the holes to match. I am going to have to devise a jig to hold things so the file doesn't bite and snap things but I think this will work, albeit with a lot more time involved than I would like - but will do the trick! Just for experimental sake I am going to try a thinner piece next time and see if I can tape it to add thickness. It would just be nice to save some time. To this end perhaps my rotary tool will be best for the bulk of opening these airways. Here is to hoping!

 

[Ben-jammin]

Well I didn't get to the rabbit hole after all. But I did get some styrene today. I spent a good chunk of time sanding it down as it was a little too thick, but now it fits better than the metal slide I have. The first thing I did when drilling holes was to start with a large bit, and broke the first hole/segment clean off. I started again smaller and slowly progressed my way up in drill diameter; starting around 3/32 and ending with about 3/16. Around 5/32 I had to start being a lot more careful as the bit would bite and threaten to snap the plastic every time. I now have a slider with holes but have found the air flow is still far to restricted so will have to square the holes to match. I am going to have to devise a jig to hold things so the file doesn't bite and snap things but I think this will work, albeit with a lot more time involved than I would like - but will do the trick! Just for experimental sake I am going to try a thinner piece next time and see if I can tape it to add thickness. It would just be nice to save some time. To this end perhaps my rotary tool will be best for the bulk of opening these airways. Here is to hoping!

A dremel with a little cut off wheel might be helpful with some kind of filler.

 

[Mr Mark]

Success! Very easy to file these out once the holes were already drilled. If I need to in the future I will try the dremel cutoff wheel, but I have a new 3D printer en route and am going to try that first (bottom of the rabbit hole and back I was). I did manage to break the slider off at a tight spot in one of the reedblocks and had some fun fishing that out...but it was the last block to be tuned so all good ? . It did take a fair amount of time to do this but if one was more careful than I was I think it would certainly work as a permanent solution (styrene - I had made the connecting rails too thin where they broke and sanding the overall piece down 0.2mm in thickness was a bit of a chore with less than ideal control methodology employed and results rendered being the somewhat thicker proof in the pudding).

 

[debra]

I have a tuning challenge where the reedblocks have no sliders. They will come at a much later date. What is the best way to go about tuning these in the meantime. I do have a sliver of balsawood the right width and thickness but no holes. The debate is to make holes in this wood (without destroying it or taking a day to do so) or to tape individual reedblock holes. The latter has been less than stellar as far as results go in the past. This may be asking a lot I realize...

When the only purpose is to block off a row of reeds so you can tune the other row there is no real work involved at all: just tape off the row you want to block using painters tape. Everything suggested here is for making register sliders for a permanent setup with registers. That's a lot of (precision) work but for just tuning it's all overkill.

 

[Mr Mark]

When the only purpose is to block off a row of reeds so you can tune the other row there is no real work involved at all: just tape off the row you want to block using painters tape. Everything suggested here is for making register sliders for a permanent setup with registers. That's a lot of (precision) work but for just tuning it's all overkill.

Paul I think once again there is a misunderstanding. Of course painters tape works to block off the reeds you don’t want to hear, but for the reeds I want to hear of course this will not work.

What this exercise has been all about is tuning reeds in a reedblock where the slider is missing altogether. The two methods I had proposed here would be to either tape of the inner slot where the slider goes, or to manufacture my own slider.

Taping is problematic for at least two reasons. 1). The tape does not stick very well to the inner surfaces being that they are often rough and there is very little surface area for tape to properly adhere to. 2). When you do get things entirely sealed you have effectively reduced the overall area of the air hole thus altering air flow while at the same time not adhering to the tuning in situ rule of thumb. Sliders don’t actually seal anything, sure they fit well but at the end of the day there is some air leakage…whereas taping (if you get it to seal ?) theoretically there is not - thus the airflow is different than it will be once the accordion is back to its natural state.

I realize for the most part the difference is negatable - but for the record - installing tape to the inside of the reed chamber slider slots (for lack of a better term) is about as much work as making a slider, and produces much less effective results…in my humble experience.

 

[debra]

Paul I think once again there is a misunderstanding. Of course painters tape works to block off the reeds you don’t want to hear, but for the reeds I want to hear of course this will not work.

What this exercise has been all about is tuning reeds in a reedblock where the slider is missing altogether. The two methods I had proposed here would be to either tape of the inner slot where the slider goes, or to manufacture my own slider.

Taping is problematic for at least two reasons. 1). The tape does not stick very well to the inner surfaces being that they are often rough and there is very little surface area for tape to properly adhere to. 2). When you do get things entirely sealed you have effectively reduced the overall area of the air hole thus altering air flow while at the same time not adhering to the tuning in situ rule of thumb. Sliders don’t actually seal anything, sure they fit well but at the end of the day there is some air leakage…whereas taping (if you get it to seal ?) theoretically there is not - thus the airflow is different than it will be once the accordion is back to its natural state.

I realize for the most part the difference is negatable - but for the record - installing tape to the inside of the reed chamber slider slots (for lack of a better term) is about as much work as making a slider, and produces much less effective results…in my humble experience.

Now I may understand... (or not...) So the reedblock has the slot where a slider should go, but the slider is missing?
Then indeed taping off the holes would not work because air will leak through the inner space for the slider.
Making your own register slider is tricky because it needs to be perfectly straight, exactly the right thickness, and have very precise holes. But register sliders are pretty standardized because accordion manufacturers do not make their own soundboards and sliders. You can buy register sliders. I would not try to make my own (also not with my 3D printer).
To just block off the reeds while you tune another reed bank you can make a dummy slider that is just a strip of thin aluminium and that has no holes.

 

[Mr Mark]

Now I may understand... (or not...) So the reedblock has the slot where a slider should go, but the slider is missing?
Then indeed taping off the holes would not work because air will leak through the inner space for the slider.
Making your own register slider is tricky because it needs to be perfectly straight, exactly the right thickness, and have very precise holes. But register sliders are pretty standardized because accordion manufacturers do not make their own soundboards and sliders. You can buy register sliders. I would not try to make my own (also not with my 3D printer).
To just block off the reeds while you tune another reed bank you can make a dummy slider that is just a strip of thin aluminium and that has no holes.

Yes, the slider is missing.

I have also found that not all sliders are created equal - none of the other sliders I have worked in this instance. So I needed to get creative. Waiting for shipping to this neck of the woods isn’t always ideal when most accordion parts are coming from the other side of the planet so often I must be thinking outside of the box’s box.

I should also point out that for a really high end instrument I would not be doing this as a permanent solution.