Accordion as a career ??
- Thread starter JIM D.
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after watching this a couple of times, I'm still quite unsure what she is saying about accordions
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
She's "selling " Pigini" PAs.
In order to "create " a demand, she's implying there are job/ career opportunities as an accordionist,
This, then, justifies the expense of buying a Pigini!?
Just another advertisement. Jozz?
A paid plug??
All legal! ?
In order to "create " a demand, she's implying there are job/ career opportunities as an accordionist,
This, then, justifies the expense of buying a Pigini!?
Just another advertisement. Jozz?
A paid plug??
All legal! ?
She talks about being a classical accordionist. OK it's on a Pigini channel but the only "selling" is pretty subtle, she looks down at the accordion when she talks about having the right sound!
She is a PA player and is talking next to a PA. Isn't it necessary to play CBA to get onto some Conservatory courses? ?
There is one element of becoming a successful professional accordionist like Ksenija that is apparent in a video that would not be apparent in sound only.
Of course there are compromises involved in being a player who represents and demonstrates one brand. It seemed to me that one of the qualifications for being a Yamaha keyboard demonstrator is the ability to say with a straight face that a little strip of red felt behind the keys "lends an air of distinguished craftsmanship" to an all-plastic instrument!
She is a PA player and is talking next to a PA. Isn't it necessary to play CBA to get onto some Conservatory courses? ?
There is one element of becoming a successful professional accordionist like Ksenija that is apparent in a video that would not be apparent in sound only.
Of course there are compromises involved in being a player who represents and demonstrates one brand. It seemed to me that one of the qualifications for being a Yamaha keyboard demonstrator is the ability to say with a straight face that a little strip of red felt behind the keys "lends an air of distinguished craftsmanship" to an all-plastic instrument!
Ksenija Sidorova is a great player, but what she does not stress is that to be able to make a living being an accordion concert performer it really helps to be a good looking young female. 99% of outstanding accordion players make a living teaching the accordion, being conductor of accordion orchestras or ensembles, transcribing music, and some even by repairing accordions, many also by doing something completely different. I'm pretty sure the professional and successful performers are maybe 1% of all the players that play really really well.
Paul pretty much nails it. Being a professional musician on any instrument is tough. Around here there is still an old time/polka tradtion that helps, although I suspect most working accordionists have a spouse with health insurance. Kind of like the artists/craftsmen.
Dingo40
Been here for ages!
"...although I suspect most working accordionists have a spouse with health insurance. Kind of like the artists/craftsmen."
Tom,
We have a saying around here,
"Q: What makes for a successful Mallee (a district around here) farmer?
A: One who's married to the local school-teacher (Doctor, Nurse, Police-person)"?
Tom,
We have a saying around here,
"Q: What makes for a successful Mallee (a district around here) farmer?
A: One who's married to the local school-teacher (Doctor, Nurse, Police-person)"?
We have better social security around here, so that's not a problem when you become an accordion teacher instead a concert performer like Ksenija Sidorova.
When I finished high school I had essentially two options: 1) go to the music conservatory, initially for piano (as accordion was still a strictly forbidden instrument, that should only be played on the street), or 2) go to university to study math. Had I made the first choice I would most certainly have ended up in the 99% that becomes a teacher, not reaching the large concert podium. I made the second choice and managed to end up in the 1% that becomes university professor and researcher. I still believe I made the right choice. But of course the 1% who has the talent and performance skills to become a professional concert musician also makes the right choice...
An interesting detail is that in both cases the 1% is in a constant struggle to find money. The professional music performer needs to find "gigs" or concert tours and manage to get enough money to play with other musicians (all needing to make a living). The university professor needs to acquire research funding through numerous grant proposals... So I'm certainly not saying that I made the better choice in general. It just worked out best for myself.
Interestingly enough, this brings up the question of just how many "musicians" are there, and how much are they making? If we trust the US Board of Labor Statistics, there are about 35,000 people employed as "musicians and singers" making a mean wage of about $40 per hour. This includes music teachers, and does not break it down by instrument. I think this means these are full time, employed musicians and singers.
The US National Endowment for the Arts estimates 194,000 people who earned some portion of their income as musicians in 2019. This would include part time and self employed musicians.
What does this mean? That there are a lot of musicians out there making some money... But only a small number employed as musicians. I couldn't find how many self employed full time musicians there are.
And although the employed musicians, on average, are doing ok, it's not clear how the self employed ones are doing. I can say that Weird Al probably made more than me in 2019, and Beyonce probably a lot more.....
Is it possible to make money as a musician? I would say yes. To be a full time self employed accordionist? Not impossible, probably not as hard as becoming an astronaut, and it probably definetly helps if your live in Louisiana and your name sounds like Chenier, or in Cleveland and your name ends in ski.
The US National Endowment for the Arts estimates 194,000 people who earned some portion of their income as musicians in 2019. This would include part time and self employed musicians.
What does this mean? That there are a lot of musicians out there making some money... But only a small number employed as musicians. I couldn't find how many self employed full time musicians there are.
And although the employed musicians, on average, are doing ok, it's not clear how the self employed ones are doing. I can say that Weird Al probably made more than me in 2019, and Beyonce probably a lot more.....
Is it possible to make money as a musician? I would say yes. To be a full time self employed accordionist? Not impossible, probably not as hard as becoming an astronaut, and it probably definetly helps if your live in Louisiana and your name sounds like Chenier, or in Cleveland and your name ends in ski.
Here's an example of how to succeed as a professional accordionist. Ted Lange has all the elements going for him, but really, you can see that behind his success is lots of hard work from an early age (the secret to success, of course, in any pursuit).
1. Start playing music when you are 2 years old, being born into a family of musicians living in an area where accordion music is traditional and valued. This is the most difficult aspect to achieve, but can be overcome by the other elements.....
2. Become so proficient at your accordion that you can play anything, anytime, with ease of expression, projecting confidence and joy.
3. Partner up with a beautiful woman or handsome man, as your situation requires, or be one yourself. We've beat this dead horse to death enough. If this is impossible, project beauty by smiling, good grooming, choice of wardrobe, positive attitude, a pleasant demeanor.
4. Play to your audience. You have to be smart enough to know what your audience likes. Sure, you can mix in other stuff, even your originals, but if you play edm at a polka party you're gonna have a problem....
5. Adjust to your situation. When covid hit, these guys got right on it and started playing the heck out of their youtube channel, doing interviews, an hour and a half variety show, lots of chatter with the audience, humor and fun.
6. Did I mention hard work daily, focused on achieving your goal as a professional accordionist?
Basically, I believe that with support, luck and hard work, being a professional accordionist is not only possible, but being done successfully every day around the world. Sitting around whining that the accordion is dead, and it's too hard to make it is not going to do it. Ok, it may be too late for me and some other old fa*ts out there, but for any young people out there reading this, you can do it if you try... Don't take no for an answer, go for it!!!!
1. Start playing music when you are 2 years old, being born into a family of musicians living in an area where accordion music is traditional and valued. This is the most difficult aspect to achieve, but can be overcome by the other elements.....
2. Become so proficient at your accordion that you can play anything, anytime, with ease of expression, projecting confidence and joy.
3. Partner up with a beautiful woman or handsome man, as your situation requires, or be one yourself. We've beat this dead horse to death enough. If this is impossible, project beauty by smiling, good grooming, choice of wardrobe, positive attitude, a pleasant demeanor.
4. Play to your audience. You have to be smart enough to know what your audience likes. Sure, you can mix in other stuff, even your originals, but if you play edm at a polka party you're gonna have a problem....
5. Adjust to your situation. When covid hit, these guys got right on it and started playing the heck out of their youtube channel, doing interviews, an hour and a half variety show, lots of chatter with the audience, humor and fun.
6. Did I mention hard work daily, focused on achieving your goal as a professional accordionist?
Basically, I believe that with support, luck and hard work, being a professional accordionist is not only possible, but being done successfully every day around the world. Sitting around whining that the accordion is dead, and it's too hard to make it is not going to do it. Ok, it may be too late for me and some other old fa*ts out there, but for any young people out there reading this, you can do it if you try... Don't take no for an answer, go for it!!!!
donn
Prolific poster
But ... why?
I'm acquainted with a few small time professional musicians. I think they are happy enough with their lot, but arguably, as a rule, they just couldn't really do anything else. Anyone with real alternatives - learn a trade or something - would be well advised to go for that, and enjoy music as a pastime. You can do both.
I'm acquainted with a few small time professional musicians. I think they are happy enough with their lot, but arguably, as a rule, they just couldn't really do anything else. Anyone with real alternatives - learn a trade or something - would be well advised to go for that, and enjoy music as a pastime. You can do both.
I guess my point here is that, without sounding like some new age, promotional guru, peope should do what they aspire to, without listening to the naysayers. Basically, if some kid says he or she wants to become a plumber, ain't nobody should say it's too hard, and they should become a professional accordionist.
professional musicianship is a different world opposed to what it once was
thanks to streaming services
to get a minimum wage a musician must have 5-6 million streams per year
that means standing out AMONG already established world class acts that share the same platform with you
that is simply impossible, only 0.000001% will get lucky and be noticed, only to find themselves no choice than to sign with a label that will wring them and milk them
the classic route moving independantly up from small gigs to larger is already pointless and won't get you near minimum wage
I agree that learning a trade would be wise for the vast majority
still a true creative soul, be it accordionist or other, will play no matter what
thanks to streaming services
to get a minimum wage a musician must have 5-6 million streams per year
that means standing out AMONG already established world class acts that share the same platform with you
that is simply impossible, only 0.000001% will get lucky and be noticed, only to find themselves no choice than to sign with a label that will wring them and milk them
the classic route moving independantly up from small gigs to larger is already pointless and won't get you near minimum wage
I agree that learning a trade would be wise for the vast majority
still a true creative soul, be it accordionist or other, will play no matter what
One of my sons friends is a lovely musician capable of creating some super original soundscapes, gets radio play and interviews... Totally unassuming lad... Streams his music on several platforms...
Showed me how much he gets paid per download....its less than the value of a Green Shield Stamp... 0.0001pence...
Come on industry, pull your socks up and help the aspiring young...or have you become so bloated you can no longer reach them...
Showed me how much he gets paid per download....its less than the value of a Green Shield Stamp... 0.0001pence...
Come on industry, pull your socks up and help the aspiring young...or have you become so bloated you can no longer reach them...
JeffJetton
Prolific poster
Similar joke around here...
Q: What do you call a bass player without a girlfriend?
A: Homeless
I’m struggling to understand some of the negativity on this topic. There are lots of routes to making a decent living as an accordionist almost anywhere, and not just for young sexy people.
Of course it goes without saying you need to play at a decent level in your genres and be a nice person to be around, but you can get paying gigs all year round if you work at it.
Wedding/Event agency bands. They pay the best and there are plenty of genres to make a band with. Celtic, Klezmer, French cafe, Gypsy Jazz, Country, Solo... Sure there are lots of better bands already but they are already booked so you’re still in with a shot as there are lots of weddings and events. £150/200 per musician + expenses average per gig.
Nursing homes. There are agencies that cater for nursing home entertainment. Pay is around £50 per hour show but you can do 2 shows per day 5 days a week and it’s mostly day time work. Standards are less high and from what work I’ve done there’s a decent demand for nostalgic solo accordion there.
Bars/restaurants. Pay anything from £40/80 per show depending on local averages. French cafe style and light jazz are quite popular in restaurants.
Busking. I made around £10 an hour for years even when I was a beginner.
Being in a band. In many genres the accordion can play a supporting role as part of the rhythm section. You don’t have to be the star, just be in the background adding that sweet accordion texture. Pay is unpredictable and life on the road is not for everyone but fun times to be had. You can stay local if you want. Just do it for fun or try to get into a band with some momentum.
Teaching. Pay around £20/25 per hour. You don’t have to be a master to teach the basics to beginners and there are more and more beginners as accordion popularity is on the rise.
If you juggle all of the above you can be working solidly all year round for good money.
There’s a big difference between “Making it” and being a working musician. Older people of average skill can find plenty of work too. You just have to apply yourself to it.
Of course it goes without saying you need to play at a decent level in your genres and be a nice person to be around, but you can get paying gigs all year round if you work at it.
Wedding/Event agency bands. They pay the best and there are plenty of genres to make a band with. Celtic, Klezmer, French cafe, Gypsy Jazz, Country, Solo... Sure there are lots of better bands already but they are already booked so you’re still in with a shot as there are lots of weddings and events. £150/200 per musician + expenses average per gig.
Nursing homes. There are agencies that cater for nursing home entertainment. Pay is around £50 per hour show but you can do 2 shows per day 5 days a week and it’s mostly day time work. Standards are less high and from what work I’ve done there’s a decent demand for nostalgic solo accordion there.
Bars/restaurants. Pay anything from £40/80 per show depending on local averages. French cafe style and light jazz are quite popular in restaurants.
Busking. I made around £10 an hour for years even when I was a beginner.
Being in a band. In many genres the accordion can play a supporting role as part of the rhythm section. You don’t have to be the star, just be in the background adding that sweet accordion texture. Pay is unpredictable and life on the road is not for everyone but fun times to be had. You can stay local if you want. Just do it for fun or try to get into a band with some momentum.
Teaching. Pay around £20/25 per hour. You don’t have to be a master to teach the basics to beginners and there are more and more beginners as accordion popularity is on the rise.
If you juggle all of the above you can be working solidly all year round for good money.
There’s a big difference between “Making it” and being a working musician. Older people of average skill can find plenty of work too. You just have to apply yourself to it.
I agree! Thanks, Nigel, for your positive attitude on this. The opportunities are there. When I played solo and with my band, we found plenty of places that were just looking for a band that would show up, play decently and make the venue look good. I am/was at lower skill than most working professionals but I could see the path forward should I have chosen that route. It's not as easy a life than as, say a plumber, but with competency and direction, why not?
Still a bit sceptical here, although I agree it is nothing to be negative about.
realistic or cautious might be better terms - this is why I am not a professional musician, I chose the 'safe' route - I admit
Anyway,
I'm not sure I can agree on making 'good money' from those options though. At least not where I live. It might be different in other countries.
In my circle of people that do this without sidejobs, it simple does not easily come to them. Even before covid and even regarding the top notch playing level that they have. It seems to me as a constant struggle, and when covid hit, everybody is on the brink of housing problems or even finding enough to eat. We chip in where we can. It is not the same problems for all of them, but still.
I mean,
it is good money if you have some of life's bases already covered. Certainly if your pay is not taxed...
With a 'normal job' you are much more likely to get to buy a house (or even pass rental criteria in the major areas of Netherlands), some form of security if something goes wrong, pension etc.
But,
they are happy and that is good!
I admire anyone that takes on this life and gets by.
realistic or cautious might be better terms - this is why I am not a professional musician, I chose the 'safe' route - I admit
Anyway,
I'm not sure I can agree on making 'good money' from those options though. At least not where I live. It might be different in other countries.
In my circle of people that do this without sidejobs, it simple does not easily come to them. Even before covid and even regarding the top notch playing level that they have. It seems to me as a constant struggle, and when covid hit, everybody is on the brink of housing problems or even finding enough to eat. We chip in where we can. It is not the same problems for all of them, but still.
I mean,
it is good money if you have some of life's bases already covered. Certainly if your pay is not taxed...
With a 'normal job' you are much more likely to get to buy a house (or even pass rental criteria in the major areas of Netherlands), some form of security if something goes wrong, pension etc.
But,
they are happy and that is good!
I admire anyone that takes on this life and gets by.
Look, you want to make BIG money with your accordion? I have got the new, improved, 21st century method for YOU!
Every day, I am inundated with 5 - 10 pitches on my facebook page purporting to give (sell) me the PERFECT method to learn to play the piano, guitar, sax, sing, arrange, etc. But not accordion. This is the ultimate opportunity! Follow this simple technique. It's gotta work, I see a new one every day.
1. Tell your story. "Years ago I struggled to learn accordion. I tried 7,000 methods. They all s*cked!!! The traditional methods, you know, Palmer Hughes, Sedlon, Mel Bay, all are outdated, old fashioned and just don't work! Finally, I developed my own method and now I turn down gigs at Carnegie Hall because I am so in demand! I can learn ANY tune in less than 2 hours! Bumble Bee? No problem! Tico Tico? Piece of cake! And I want to share this method with YOU!!!
2. Put together a "method" which is basically "practice this way, work hard every day, follow my lessons on youtube." The method doesn't have to be much different than Palmer, just has to be available ONLY to paying subscribers. (Money back guarantee if you are not satisfied).
3. Form a Facebook group that people can join to talk about their experiences. Let your students do your work! Pepper it with anecdotes and inspiration. Search free clip art for happy peopke to tell their "story" of success. Gear the experiencers to your target audience. Be sure to be multi culturale. "Tommaso Guidoliolio from a little borgo outside Rome says, Sì, davvero, the Accordiono (sic) method got me playing in less than 5 minutes! It's amazing!"
4. Sit back and watch the money roll in. You'll never play another sweaty bar gig in your life! You'll be sitting pretty on a Carribean island in no time.
Please contact me for further info on this foolproof method for making money with your accordion! I also accept worn out bills and Paypal!!!!!
PS. Did I mention that, for a limited time, with every subscription there is a free E. Paoli Scandalli accordion, 100% Italian made a mano by me, with wood from trees I planted at age 6, metal I smelted by hand in the shadow of Mt. Etna, and leather from pasture raised, organic, bgh free, all natural cows of an extremely rare breed that are really happy.
Every day, I am inundated with 5 - 10 pitches on my facebook page purporting to give (sell) me the PERFECT method to learn to play the piano, guitar, sax, sing, arrange, etc. But not accordion. This is the ultimate opportunity! Follow this simple technique. It's gotta work, I see a new one every day.
1. Tell your story. "Years ago I struggled to learn accordion. I tried 7,000 methods. They all s*cked!!! The traditional methods, you know, Palmer Hughes, Sedlon, Mel Bay, all are outdated, old fashioned and just don't work! Finally, I developed my own method and now I turn down gigs at Carnegie Hall because I am so in demand! I can learn ANY tune in less than 2 hours! Bumble Bee? No problem! Tico Tico? Piece of cake! And I want to share this method with YOU!!!
2. Put together a "method" which is basically "practice this way, work hard every day, follow my lessons on youtube." The method doesn't have to be much different than Palmer, just has to be available ONLY to paying subscribers. (Money back guarantee if you are not satisfied).
3. Form a Facebook group that people can join to talk about their experiences. Let your students do your work! Pepper it with anecdotes and inspiration. Search free clip art for happy peopke to tell their "story" of success. Gear the experiencers to your target audience. Be sure to be multi culturale. "Tommaso Guidoliolio from a little borgo outside Rome says, Sì, davvero, the Accordiono (sic) method got me playing in less than 5 minutes! It's amazing!"
4. Sit back and watch the money roll in. You'll never play another sweaty bar gig in your life! You'll be sitting pretty on a Carribean island in no time.
Please contact me for further info on this foolproof method for making money with your accordion! I also accept worn out bills and Paypal!!!!!
PS. Did I mention that, for a limited time, with every subscription there is a free E. Paoli Scandalli accordion, 100% Italian made a mano by me, with wood from trees I planted at age 6, metal I smelted by hand in the shadow of Mt. Etna, and leather from pasture raised, organic, bgh free, all natural cows of an extremely rare breed that are really happy.
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I understand your scepticism but in reality I’ve seen colleagues and friends buy houses as self employed musicians. It’s certainly not an easy life and it’s a job mixed up with your creativity which can be emotionally draining at times. Doesn’t suit everyone.
“Good money“ is relative sure. It’s hard to juggle the hours needed to earn well having a young family at home for instance, but you can make a better wage than a supermarket employee in better hours. My friend really does do the 10 nursing home gigs per week all year. That’s £500 per week between 10.am and 3pm Monday to Friday. Gigs and teaching on top...
You need to be motivated and do three things well to succeed in a working musician life.
Practicing. Networking. Marketing.
I’m not good at any of those so I never bought a house but have had a good career and a family life non the less.
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